Pets Abroad!

Pets Abroad A deep dive into owning or adopting a pet while living internationally with Samantha Morici DVM

Mickelle: Samantha Morici or Sam the vet, as she is known to her patients, is the founding veterinarian of the Good Boys Club. The Good Boys Club is a membership designed to bring the unique needs of pets and pet parents with ease and convenience. With the combination of at home visits, virtual care, and community engagement, Sami has created a modern, accessible, and holistic approach to veterinary medicine.

Mickelle: Originally from New York, Dr. Morici completed her B. S. in Biology and Animal Science at Cornell University prior to acquiring her veterinary degree from the Auburn University College of Veterinary Medicine. Following her studies, Dr. Morici completed an intensive clinical training program in small animal medicine and surgery at the prestigious Animal Medical Center in New York City.

Mickelle: She’s a global veterinarian to her core, with first hand veterinary medical experience in two different languages and on six different continents. Prior to founding the Good Boys Club, Dr. Morici worked as an independent consultant, virtual care provider, ER clinician in New York City, and as a leading hospitalist at the busiest emergency and referral hospital in the Netherlands.

Mickelle: It was after her move to Amsterdam that she was able to reassess her values, rebalance her life, and find a new way of looking at what holistic veterinary care could mean, and bring it to the world through the Good Voice Club. I love chatting with Dr. Morici, or Sammy as she’s known to me. Not only did we meet at one of my favorite spots in the city, Back to Black, but her take on our relationship with the animals in our lives resonates so strongly as what I think the future of medicine for animals could and should be.

Mickelle: I see her most days in the cafe with her dog Luca, who has moved around the world with her in so many travels. When we are living internationally, or as expats, it can sometimes feel like we need to put life on hold, and sometimes that means we hold off on having animals in our lives, and for good reason.

Mickelle: Sammy talks to us about embracing your full life, and if that includes a pet, not ruling it out, but figuring out if you can make it work for you. I highly recommend listening if you are thinking of bringing a pet into your international life. Her tips on how to really consider the right fit in the right community to bring your new pet into are extremely helpful.

Mickelle: As we know, living internationally touches all parts of our lives and how we live them, and that includes the furry friends that come along for the ride. I love this conversation and hope you do too. If you enjoy this podcast, please feel free to share with a friend. This is the best way you can get the word out about House of Peregrine and our mission to connect people living internationally more deeply with themselves, each other, and the place they currently call home.

Mickelle: Okay. On to today’s episode. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the House of Peregrine podcast. Sami thank you so much for joining us today. I am so excited to talk to you all about your work and animals in Amsterdam. So why don’t you start please by introducing yourself to our audience.

Sami: Yeah. Awesome. Uh, thanks for having me.

Sami: Super glad to be here as well. I’m Sami , Samantha Marichi is my full name, but you can call me Sammy. I’m a veterinarian from the U S I hail from New York. Originally moved to Amsterdam five years ago and now recently just opened my own veterinary practice, a hybrid. House call digital care about practice and moved a bit into the realm of thought leadership.

Sami: I also have a newsletter, Sami the bat. And so those are sort of my projects at the moment. And so, yeah, let’s chat about it. Let’s chat about life.

Mickelle: Let’s go, let’s go. I want you to start with a little bit of the beginning. So, When you were in the U. S., I know about you that you were studying cancer research in animals.

Mickelle: And so I wanted to talk a little bit about how you grew up, what maybe sparked that interest or obsession into this realm.

Sami: Yeah. So, I guess, You could say i’ve always had a keen interest in cancer I think we all sort of have an idea of what cancer means right and we all kind of have some sort of personal association with disease But I think when people think about cancer, they kind of think about it as like one disease like cancer with a capital c But it’s really a whole host of different diseases and I found it super interesting all the different diseases and the genetic predilections and the lifestyle decisions and how that how it all came to be sort of and animals also get all so many different types of cancer similar to people and because of their sort of uh shorter lifespan they serve as a really good model for researching a lot of different types of cancer for example larger dogs tend to get osteosarcoma And that’s a Cancer or disease that usually happens in like adolescence and young adults Uh, and it just gives us a good model to to study the disease So I was really interested also in sort of like the translational effects how studying the disease and pets can help us Study and treat the disease in people and vice versa.

Sami: We take a lot from human medicine But I think we also give a lot back and I found that super interesting, but I guess you could say how I originally You Learned a bit like as a very young girl was because my grandmother passed away from young cancer, lung cancer before I was born. And that was always sort of like a narrative in our house.

Sami: Like my grandfather really, really loved my grandmother. He never really got over it. And so he was always talking about her and how she passed away. And like, you can tell that it not consumed him, but he. It was sort of like a main focal point in his life and a big part of his story and Became a big part of the family narrative, you know, like my grandmother stuff was still all over the house He would always talk about her and so I had an idea of what that meant and I understood loss from a very young age and I was just very interested in that.

Sami: And then so when I started to, when I went to vet school and when I moved into my own sort of healthcare path, that was obviously a huge interest for me. And I just sort of rolled from there.

Mickelle: Yeah. So you had a very early awareness of the personal effects of it. So maybe it was like was it like a monster in your childhood or was it like more of a fascination?

Mickelle: More of a fascination, I guess you could say. Yeah. And it was almost like a character in the story of your grandpa’s life in a way.

Sami: Yeah.

Mickelle: Yeah, definitely. Mm hmm. Yeah. Interesting. And how that shapes us. So tell us a little bit where you grew up briefly and then what, did you always know you wanted to be a vet?

Mickelle: Did you always know you wanted to work with animals?

Sami: Yeah, definitely. I think, so I grew up in New York and. I was always that kid that had a really strong connection with animals. I kind of knew straight out the womb that that’s like what I wanted to do. Surely someone planted the seed. I’m not sure who or how, but for as long as I can remember, I always wanted to be a vet.

Sami: I used to say, I’m going to go to Harvard and I’m going to be a veterinarian. And I almost did that in half of it anyway, and yeah I always had a really strong connection with animals in my Elementary school yearbook when i’m like nine or ten years old uh has we all had to submit a Our baby picture and write underneath what we wanted to be when we grew up and mine says veterinarian So yeah, and one of the the few lucky people I think that actually became what they wanted to be when they grew up Yeah.

Sami: There’s not as many

Mickelle: firefighters as there were little kids who wanted to be firefighters.

Sami: Right. And astronauts and veterinarians, I think is another big one.

Mickelle: Yeah. And so you had an early connection with animals that you, that just maybe came with you. And so did you have a pet growing up that you really connected to?

Sami: Yeah, I always had a bunch of animals growing up. Uh, I had ferrets, hamsters, turtles, hermit crabs, uh, and labradors, quite a few labradors, like I have now. And yeah, I was always very, very close with them.

Mickelle: Nice. And I think there are some people and especially some kids that are just in tune with them or they allow that attunement and, and would you say that you’ve kind of kept that as you’ve gotten older?

Sami: For sure. I think it’s only solidified as I’ve kind of grown. Grown into myself and become more of who I am and sort of develop that. I think I’ve always been super in touch with animals. I’ve always felt very connected to them. And I kind of feel like one of my superpowers is that I can kind of see them.

Sami: I can see and understand their experience, feel what they’re feeling. I can understand what they’re going through. I think that’s one of my superpowers as a bat and I’ve only developed that. Throughout the years as a veterinarian and as a pet owner,

Mickelle: right? Right. And so you, so you grew up nine, 10 year old Sammy wanted to be a vet and then 16, 17, 18 year old Sammy decided to go to vet school.

It

Mickelle: worked. And where did you, where did you, how did that journey look?

Sami: Yeah. So the process is, so after you graduate from high school, you do a four year bachelor’s degree. So I went to Cornell for that study biology and animal science. And it’s actually quite a rigorous application process. I think I had to do like 2000 hours of Animal experience with varied species.

Sami: So I used to wake up at like 5 AM before organic chemistry to go and pick out horse stalls. Then I was teaching like, uh, younger undergraduates, how to work with and care for different farm animals in the barn as a TA, uh, I was working, doing research then in. Actually working with dairy cattle and working with dairy cattle production like the productivity of dairy cows, doing all sorts of things, also working in a clinic.

Sami: And then you sort of bring this all together, the research, the teaching experience and other varied animal experiences, and then submitted my application. Luckily I got in the first try, which is not the case. I think a lot of people have to apply quite a few times or do a master’s in between. So I was super lucky.

Sami: And then I went to Auburn vet school in Alabama. Which was an amazing four years, a definite different culture, definitely, which I think was really good for me to be in a unique space and to, yeah, just, I think that was the first time experiencing being in a completely different culture is New York City versus Alabama.

Sami: It’s like night and day, right? Yeah. So I learned a lot, I learned a lot through the veterinary curriculum, but I also learned a lot through the unwritten curriculum, sort of the curriculum of life. Uh, and then that’s also a four year program that school and the last year is sort of clinical. So I went around doing a lot of clinical training all over the place and, uh, I did, what was it?

Sami: Three months in Australia, also a stint in Chile. And I was also traveling. Quite a bit then just sort of, trying different things out, trying to find my place, I guess you could say, but I was working, I was on the board of this, uh, global veterinary organization, the international veterinary students association, also working with the American veterinary medical association.

Sami: And so I was working a lot in policy already as. I was a student and that had me going all over the world for meetings. I attended, uh, United Nations General Assembly on Antimicrobial Resistance only as a third year veterinary student. I think I was the only veterinary student at that meeting, which was pretty amazing.

Mickelle: So you’re, you’re essentially like working with animals daily and then working on policy for animals, like all the thread pulled all the way through to everything you were doing on every level. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And so you really. Your studies for eight years were focused completely on the full experience of caring for animals, learning about them, learning how to care for them, learning how to teach people about them.

Mickelle: That is quite a dedication at a very young age to, I guess, what would you say, learning a new language or tuning into a new frequency of animal, animals?

Sami: Yeah, it definitely was a huge commitment.

Sami: Entire identity.

Hmm,

Sami: right up and up through my The my middle 20s, I would say mid to late 20s. That was pretty much all I did and that’s kind of where I got my identity Sammy the vet which is the name of my newsletter because that’s how everybody knew me from such a young age. I was Sammy who wanted to be a vet and Sammy who was going to be a vet and then Sammy who was a vet.

Sami: And that was sort of really all I did. It was kind of a major focal point of my life. It still is, but now they’re, I’m a bit more balanced these days.

Mickelle: So you went really, really focused for eight years on becoming Sammy the vet. And then there was a moment What happened next? So you were, you were set to do, tell us a story, you’re set to do something else.

Mickelle: You’re going into your next phase of Sammy the Vet.

Sami: And so when you’re in vet school, then it’s, what do you want to be in your group? What do you want to be in your group? Oh, I want to be a veterinarian. Then you get to vet school and they’re like, well, what do you want to do? And I’m like, I thought that was the answer.

Sami: They’re like, no, what kind of vet? And that was actually a pretty easy decision for me. Well, I really am interested in oncology. I think cancer is super interesting. I also really. It’s it’s also it tends to be a disease of older people and older animals, right? Like there are many other types of cancer that happen in uh, younger people and younger animals, but primarily it’s a disease that comes with age and I really love older dogs and older cats and especially I love the cases where it’s An older owner with the old pet and they’re just best friends and they love each other and you know Just seeing the connection that they have and just being able to help that unit and just to be around them I just love so much.

Sami: And so I started going down the oncology route and you sort of have to choose. What, what the route is that you want to go and focus on and specialize. And so that was the route that I took. And I went into a rotating internship and back in New York city. And that’s sort of the first re it’s essentially like first year residency.

Sami: And then after that you go on and you do another three or four years somewhere else to be come aboard certified. oncologist, neurologist, cardiologist, et cetera. And so that’s,

Mickelle: I just want to highlight this, have an oncologist with you, with your pet, they have gone through up to 12 years of training, minimum 12 years of

Sami: training, 12 years of training to be, if they’ve done a fellowship or they had to do a master’s in between or something like that, it can be up to like 15 years.

Sami: Yeah.

Mickelle: That’s incredible. I don’t think I realize that. Maybe other people know that, but that’s an incredible amount of dedication to, to your profession, of course, but you know, animals, sometimes we don’t realize. I mean, we have a responsibility to them that I think that you’re highly aware of, which I think is really beautiful.

Mickelle: So you were set out to do this. You decided on oncology. You were like, Hey, now I’m Sami the vet oncologist. Thank you. That was the plan.

Sami: But then in my internship, something started to shift. I guess you could say it was a pretty grueling program. I think I worked like 20 hours a day, 16 to 20 hours a day, six to seven days a week, I would say we sometimes got one day off, but I often on that.

Sami: Day off would take a cab to another hospital and work a release shift overnight and was doing vaccine drives and low income communities in the city and just 24 7. I was on, so it’s no surprise. I think by the end of my internship, I was a little bit burnt out, but I didn’t know that then. I think I just, at some stage, uh, we had to go through the matching program.

Sami: So there’s this program, it’s called the. Veterinary internship and residency matching program. So that’s where you set, uh, set in your application for the next step. And they essentially match you with the program that they think is best suited to you. Right? So I’m filling out this application and literally down to the last second.

Sami: I was sitting there with my roommate, uh, standing, uh, waiting to hit the submit button, waiting for the clock to run out and something just didn’t feel. Right and I couldn’t put my finger on it then but I was like this path just does not feel Right to me anymore. It was such a difficult decision, you know, because as I was saying I highly identified with this It was the path that I was on.

Sami: It was so clear to me. It was a b c d just follow this path and Collect a pass go collect 200 euros, you know like it was I knew exactly what to do and it was all I wanted to do for so long and I didn’t know what the next step would be after that if I didn’t You Continue on that path, but I just knew it wasn’t right for me and I had to listen to my intuition.

Sami: So I effectively withdrew from the match.

Mickelle: Wow. Yeah. That moment you just didn’t press the button. Correct. Wow. And that’s after all the work you did, you’re just like unsubscribe.

Sami: Did training all over the world’s got recommendation letters from like the founding fathers of surgical oncology. I had published research papers in oncology.

Sami: I had done all the programs, all the training. That’s incredible. That’s incredible.

Mickelle: At that moment, I just, I, I think that that must have felt like monumental to have to make that decision

Sami: at the moment. It felt terrifying, right? Because like I said, it was my identity. And then who was I outside of that?

Sami: What was I going to do? I had no idea. And it’s also scary because You feel like you’re letting everybody down because they all have these expectations of you. And as I said, so many people had supported me and written me letters and trained me and taught me and they wanted it for me, but yeah, that’s, I just realized that it, that just wasn’t the right reason to proceed.

Sami: You know, like it wasn’t right to continue because that’s what everybody else wants it. Or I was worried what other people would think, or I was worried about disappointing people or. Because of an income or the assurance of it, or you know, none of that matters at the end

Mickelle: of the day. And so something within yourself, you had, you couldn’t, you just had to listen to that, which is again, incredible.

Mickelle: So faith, the unknown of so very well known path that you’d worked really hard for. And then, Not clicking that button withdrawing, tell us what happens next.

Sami: So at that stage, I think there were a few things going on. The thoughts going through my head were nothing feels right right now. This is not it, you know, and I’m, I’m, The picture is i’m living in midtown manhattan in uh in new york city.

Sami: I’m working all day every day. I hardly see my friends There’s no community Don’t see my family. I have really terrible work life balance And I just thought this This is not it. And I don’t know where it is, but I’m going to go find it. And so I had a bunch of experience testing out the waters in different places, traveling through my policy work.

Sami: And that was another really big passion of mine was veterinary policy, because I feel like. I’m a very impact driven individual and I feel like you know in the clinic You’re one on one with a person like the maximum number of people animals that you can help at any given moment is one but when you work in policy and you work to shape Sort of the way that the profession functions on a global level And you empower veterinarians like the impact that you can have is so much greater and so that was along the lines of what I was thinking and I I wanted to potentially move back into that space and I also didn’t really feel aligned with The culture in america the values in america.

Sami: I just didn’t feel like it was right for me and I had been to The netherlands before and I really liked it here And because I had a bunch of veterinary friends that lived here through this policy work in this organizational Organized veterinary medicine that I was doing before I had been here a bunch and I had some sort of community here.

Sami: I wasn’t coming here because With not without knowing anybody. And so I just sort of took the plunge and when my internship was done I packed up I got rid of all my stuff. I moved over to suitcases and a dog and that was it Didn’t have a job Didn’t know how anything worked Didn’t even know how to find a job what that process would be like.

Sami: I didn’t speak the language Nothing. I just came. I made it work one subscribe from

Mickelle: your life. And that is an incredible leap of faith into the unknown. Just basically following your gut, basically following whatever came up for you. And your dog, we, I see your dog, we, we know each other from back to black in Amsterdam.

Mickelle: So we, yes, the best coffee place. Yeah. Cafe. Not coffee shop. Cafe. I know. I say it all the time still. But cafe. And our dogs met, but yeah. That’s how I meet everybody. He is your outgoing partner and you are, yeah, you are his, you are his human or is he your dog? Yeah, both. But you, when you moved with your dog, what year was this?

Mickelle: Yeah. Well, Luca, right? Yes. Luca. Yeah. You and Luca moved here

Sami: in which year? 2019. August is 2019. So right before the pandemic hit.

Mickelle: Wow. And so you moved here. I think I remember you saying it was for a love interest at the time. Which all the time, but then the world changed in an instant after that. Tell us, tell us a little bit about how, because you, you kind of go into a cocoon, so you would just unsubscribe from everything and then you go into the world cocoon.

Mickelle: How did that, how did that affect you?

Sami: Yeah. So the other part of this story is that at the time I was also dating a guy who lived in Amsterdam and that was sort of the straw that broke the camel’s back. And I think he. Was influential in my life at that stage because he He was the only person challenging me on the path that I was on saying You’re not happy.

Sami: You seem exhausted and miserable every day. You’ve always wanted to move to Europe. Why don’t you just come here? And I was like, well, I can’t, I can’t back out of the match. They’ll blacklist me for three years. Like the, well, I’m going to, what will everybody think? And he was like, who cares? First of all, that’s ridiculous that they do that.

Sami: And he was right. Why are we doing that to young, young people? But yeah, he was right. And so he just gave me the, like the last bit of motivation to, to do it. And so then, yeah, I moved here and

Mickelle: I moved. Well, and I want to, I just want to highlight something that you said, because it’s messed up that they do that to young people, but in your American mind, you’re like, this is what we do.

Mickelle: Like, you’re just like, why would I not be miserable in my twenties? Like this is how you get, that’s the path. That’s the path. Yeah.

Sami: That’s the path. Yeah. Everybody’s miserable. Everybody’s exhausted. There’s absolutely no community. People, people, you know what I found really interesting is that people would say, yeah, this person’s my best friend.

Sami: And that’s something I term that we use very loosely in America. We say, this person is my best friend. I’m like, Oh, tell me about them. Like, how often do you see them? Oh, they never see them. The relationships are very surface level. And like, there’s no relational intimacy. I just, how, how do you consider that person?

Sami: Your best friend, but that’s the way that society is set up there. There’s just absolutely. No community. It’s just you and you go to work and that’s it anyway.

Mickelle: And your identity is formed

Sami: that

Mickelle: way. You are

Sami: what you do. Yeah. When you introduce yourself to somebody in the U S that you say, Hey, I’m Sammy. Oh, Hey Sammy.

Sami: What do you do? First question. Yeah. Like the first question you asked, but in the Netherlands, it’s like, Hey, I’m Sammy. Oh, Hey Sammy. Like, how are you? What’s going on? Like, what do you like to do? Tell me what your hobbies are. Tell me about you. Tell me about your

Mickelle: last holiday.

Sami: Yeah. Tell me about something that moved you recently.

Sami: Tell me about what books you’re reading, you know. And it’s, you’re not just your work. In fact, I would say for the most part, I don’t know what most of my friends do here. Me too. And that’s super nice because I’m not trying to form a relationship with somebody because of like status or something like this, which is kind of like how it feels like in the U S like relationships are very transactional and about appearances, et cetera.

Sami: But here I’m just genuinely forming connections with people because of who they are. Yeah. And it’s much more meaningful in a way.

Mickelle: Yeah, it relaxes your new nervous system as well. Like it. A hundred percent. Yeah. So he was the only one challenging. And these people are always like the best where you’re like, I’m in an echo chamber and there’s one voice that’s hitting somewhere deep inside of me, helping me like question my path.

Mickelle: And so that was that person for you. And then you pandemic hits, you’re in the cocoon, the whole world is in, and are you at this time? This time, because becoming an international, someone who’s an expat, or how do you consider yourself? An immigrant, expat? Yeah, expat, I guess. Yeah. Patriot. Patriot, yeah. Fancy immigrant.

Mickelle: Yeah, fancy immigrant. But you were having a very unique experience of that, because you weren’t actually coming and going from countries when they were themselves. And so how did that affect you, do you think?

Sami: Yeah, I think it was a difficult period, you know, it was for all of us. Ultimately, I think it was an, an incubator for a lot of things.

Sami: And it I, I certainly didn’t get the normal expat experience to start, but I had been to the Netherlands quite a few times before and already did have some community here of my own. So I didn’t feel. Like, I didn’t know what the Netherlands could be. I felt like I had enough information that I still wanted to stay and stick it out.

Sami: But it was challenging, you know, I was a veterinarian in the pandemic, which wasn’t a human doctor, but our profession was also hit super hard. Uh, just any form of healthcare was deeply affected by the pandemic. And so most people were staying home. And for the most part, I was too up through half of it, but then at some stage I started working in an ER and an ICU during the pandemic, and that was.

Sami: For humans or for pets? For pets. Yeah. The

Mickelle: veterinary. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And that is a big deal. But so you, you did that, which was probably really intense because of all the measures which were different around the world, but what else did you see in pets during that time? I think people,

Sami: we were just so busy.

Sami: We were seeing so many more cases and had to do so with an ever waning staff, right? Like people would get sick and they would be out. We had to take so many measures to ensure that the entire staff didn’t get wiped out all while running a fully functional, fully packed. And I see you not to mention in my second language, right?

Sami: And there were a lot of times where, I mean, I was young and I was oftentimes the most experienced person in the room. And so I had to, I took on a lot and in your second language, in an emotionally charged, busy atmosphere, it was a lot, you know, Yeah. It was a lot.

Mickelle: Yeah. And as we know, people, well, I think, do you think people became more aware of their pets and that’s one of the reasons it was so busy?

Mickelle: Like they were more aware of their, they were around them more, they were into their space or why do

Sami: you think it was so busy? I think a lot of people got pets during the pandemic because they were alone. So there were more animals to see at some stage, all of the shelters in the Netherlands were completely empty because, you know, in the Netherlands, they don’t have any stray animals.

Sami: Right. And so we import them from the South of Europe, like Spain, Greece, et cetera, where they have massive stray populations and. are trying to prevent euthanizing them all. And so they come to places like here where we don’t have stray animals, uh, so that they can get adopted out to families here. But all the shelters were empty.

Sami: All the animals had been adopted. That’s incredible. If you think about it. A hundred percent.

Mickelle: Really incredible. And. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt you, but why do you think the shelters, so they have a no kill, there’s no killing animals here. Correct. And so how do you think they can do that? Because you and I both come from a country where that’s, there’s so many pets overrunning the system that they feel they have to have these policies of euthanize, euthanizing animals.

Mickelle: What is the difference? Where is the, what is the difference between these two approaches? It’s not that

Sami: the U. S. feels that they have to have this policy that they euthanize animals. It’s hard for them as well. But there are just so many stray animals in the U. S. And there are just not enough people to take them.

Sami: And yeah, it’s a, it’s a really difficult topic, but there’s the Netherlands is doing quite a few things. Right. And so they were the first country to declare themselves officially completely free of stray dogs, the first country in the world, which is really incredible. And, but I think that there are a lot of reasons they’re able to do that.

Sami: Right. So like in the Netherlands. First of all, it’s quite, it’s like a social country, right? And so there’s this sense of like, people take care of each other and they take care of animals. They have a different view of animals. And I think, as you said about them not having kill shelters, I think That helps to shape the public’s perception of sort of like the worth, like what the life of an animal is worth

Mickelle: and how precious

Sami: that is.

Mickelle: So it starts with not having the kill shelter, not with other things. So if you know you have to take care of every being, you do things differently from the start. Is that what you’re saying? That.

Sami: And yeah, and I think that helps to shape the public’s perception, but it’s also so that you have like the civil buy in in that way and how people view animals.

Sami: And we also don’t have that much homelessness in the Netherlands, right? Like there’s, there are programs to support people and there’s a very high sort of, Welfare of humans and because the people are so well taken care of it creates space then for us to focus on Animals and their welfare and the issues surrounding them.

Sami: So that’s part of it. And there’s also The political structure is set up differently like, you know in the netherlands. We have the party Partai for dira, which is like the political party for animals. So there are groups that are specifically focused on animal welfare.

Mickelle: So it’s a political party that’s specifically for the welfare of animals.

Mickelle: Yeah. Is that, do I have that right? Yeah. Isn’t that amazing? That’s amazing. So there’s people that are passionate enough to put their political votes behind this party. A hundred percent.

Sami: Yeah. And it’s a different system though. So like in the U S it’s bipartisan, right? You’re a Democrat or you’re a Republican, or you’re throwing away your vote.

Sami: But in the Netherlands, it’s not. Like that, right? There are all these different parties and in order for them to come into power, they have to form a coalition of three of them. So there, it increases the chance that any given parties, uh, party or their interests will be included in, yeah, the power holding, uh, coalition of parties.

Sami: So I think that helps to create some balance in a way as well.

Mickelle: Yeah. And so with your international animal rights hat on, you, you get to, you’ve lived in two systems and. had been able to kind of see the difference. What, what impact or what, give us a little bit of background about this. So there’s an international body that gives standards to veterinarians around the world.

Mickelle: Tell us a little bit how it works.

Sami: Yeah, so i’m just going to correct one one word that you said so I would say more I would be focused on animal welfare and not animal rights in a sense Which is just a very very small difference, but it means something really different in my field You could say so i’m very focused on the welfare of animals, but I think that you know people can eat animals, et cetera, as well.

Mickelle: Yeah. Oh, interesting. Interesting. So animals don’t, you’re not giving animals rights like humans, but you’re ultimately looking after the welfare of the animals. Yeah. That we, we need to respect them.

Sami: Yeah. That’s our responsibility.

Mickelle: Yeah. Okay. And so when you have that, that on, like if you were to give us a little bit of a glimpse into that world, when you were serving on these and you probably continue to be plugged into these organizations, what would you say people might need to know about those organizations?

Sami: Yeah, so For some time I was working with the world veterinary association also the world small animal veterinary association. These are sort of non profit professional organizations that Draft the policies that sort of shape the way that profession functions and sets the standards of the way that veterinarians operate globally, they Have different policies and positions and etc.

Sami: And they try to they set out guidelines and standards for You How you should practice as a veterinarian, things that we should do, how we should use antibiotics, what our approach to different cases should be, how veterinarians should be supported, what our role is, et cetera. Also in public health. So they’re, yeah, they’re very influential.

Sami: They’re pretty big.

Mickelle: Wow. Uh, yeah. So you see that I have a feeling is from because we are, you know, we’re in a way acting on animals. We have a responsibility to do that in a certain way.

Sami: Yeah, definitely. And it’s, it’s also just understanding how much the profession varies globally and understanding the cultural differences, what animals mean to people in different parts of the world, because that’s highly variable, right?

Sami: And so the profession has different priorities in different areas, recognizing that understanding how to best support veterinarians in their role and how that looks.

Mickelle: in different parts of the world? Yeah. What is the veterinarian’s role? Like what do you see your role as, as a veterinarian?

Sami: Wow. That’s a great question.

Sami: I would say I wear quite a few hats. So at face value, I’m a I’m a companion animal veterinarian, right? So I work with dogs and cats. And my role is to alleviate suffering and promote the welfare. And Of animals to promote the human animal bond to Help people help their animals. I think my role is also As an educator, but I think if you zoom out sort of my mission and purpose as a vet is to help people see Animals better and to empower people in that way to provide better care for their own animals

Yeah,

Sami: okay as a veterinarian as the title.

Sami: I think there are different expectations in different areas of the world We’re also have a huge hand in maintaining public health where well veterinarians are also responsible for Ensuring the safety of the global food supply, right? So it’s like every time you have ice cream or eat a steak or a veterinarian has been involved Every step of the process right in terms of like the animal’s conception a healthy pregnancy the birth of the animal the animal being raised its nutrition along the way what medications may or may not go into the animal How it’s slaughtered how it’s transported internationally inspecting it there and just every step of the way And so I don’t know.

Sami: I always say veterinarians make the world go around. You really don’t see it, but we’re kind of everywhere.

Mickelle: That’s, that’s a really good point. It’s such a really important thing to realize, which I love that you’re bringing it to us. And so when we talk about the animal, you say you’re a companion animal veterinarian.

Mickelle: I think that the way we treat cancer in humans, and you’ve got to experience this a little bit, maybe in your internship, is. Maybe a little bit different in how we do this with our companion animals. Can you give us a glimpse into that a little bit?

Sami: So, while animals do get many of the same types of cancer and the disease can, these different diseases can operate in a similar way or approach to treating it, at least in companion animals differs from what you’re familiar with in people, right?

Sami: So in people, there’s always For the most part, a curative intent. You want to make it go away. You want the cancer to be cured, the person to be cured of the cancer. But in veterinary medicine, we don’t always do things with a curative intent. If we can cure it and the duration of suffering will be minimal with the intent that the animal will then go on to live a very long, high quality.

Sami: Life, then we go for, then we take a curative intent, but otherwise we’re focused on improving or maintaining quality of life, right? There’s no, we don’t extend life. We extend quality of life. And so the approach is a little bit different. So for example, in cases of chemotherapy, right? Like you’re, if you’ve ever been around someone who’s going through chemo, it’s.

Sami: Horrific, right? They lose all their hair. They’re violently vomiting. They lose tons of weight. They feel. Horrible, but we would never do that to a dog, right? The dog doesn’t need to live long enough to walk its daughter down the aisle It doesn’t need to put its son through college A dog just needs to be a dog and to have a good life and to have a good life with you That’s its only purpose right?

Sami: And so That’s what we want to try to support. So we dose the drugs a bit differently. We offer different Treatment options. And the goal is that the animal feels good every day, right? And if it gets to a point where, and that’s not to say that they won’t ever have a bad day, of course, like if you’re on chemotherapy, you might throw up once you have some loose stool, that’s okay.

Sami: But if the dog feels like crap, then we change the treatment plan in it. And ultimately if it comes to a point where it, when it reaches a point, if, and when it reaches a point that the animal no longer feels good than we saw.

Mickelle: Yeah. Because you are in effect acting on the animal without, They’re, they can’t give you a consent, like I want to live.

Mickelle: So you really are having to go into what, without knowing that the dog, because dogs don’t know, dogs and cats don’t know they have cancer, they just know

Sami: how they feel in the moment.

Mickelle: Yeah. And so as they’re humans and as the vet, we are in fact having to make a ethical call about what we are acting upon them.

Mickelle: Yeah. That’s super interesting. And advocate on their behalf. Yeah. And advocate for a good, more good days than bad days.

Sami: There should always be more good days than bad days. And that’s, I think often one of the more difficult aspects of what I do is like the intersection of caring for the people and caring for the pets.

Sami: Something I wasn’t trained to do in vet school, but I would say I’m also a part time therapist, part time financial advisor, part time veterinarian, you know, it’s, I’m doing so much more than caring for the pets. And I think. Caring for the people is actually, at times, the more challenging.

Mickelle: Yeah. And it’s like, if you’re caring for a sick loved one, or even a brand new loved one, a brand new baby, the caretakers are actually, them being informed and happy and healthy is actually benefiting the patient.

Mickelle: The one being cared for

Sami: 100%. I’m actually so glad that you brought that up because that’s such a huge thing. And something I’m talking about a lot these days is how our health and specifically our mental health affects our animals. And. Their psychoemotional health and ultimately then physical health, right?

Sami: Because we know that all of these things are intertwined and I’m seeing so much these days, animals with effectively mental health issues, anxiety, trauma and all of the manifestations of that. And. It’s not uncommon that I see that animals who are suffering from mental health issues also have an owner that’s suffering from mental health issues and how these things play on each other and how they affect each other in the home and the home environment.

Sami: And

Mickelle: yeah, your bodies are, they’re interacting in all the ways. Yeah. That’s super interesting. Yeah. So. Now, I kind of want to talk about, so your path to the Netherlands led you to, maybe, would you say you’ve reimagined the way veterinary care can be delivered? Or how would you say your veterinary practice today reflects, reflects what you’ve learned?

Mickelle: We should tell people you have a veterinary service. Tell us a little bit about, about that.

Sami: Yes. So I have my own veterinary service now that I started about a year ago called the good boys club and it’s a hybrid practice. So I do house calls, but I also do digital care. So, I’ll do appointments at the home and I can do effectively all the things you do in the clinic, right?

Sami: I can pick diagnostics, prescribed medications and whatever the pet needs, but I also operate digitally. The way that works is it’s kind of a, uh, I call it a club, right. Or a community. So you subscribe and then you have unlimited access to a vet by text call video chat every month. And I, and it’s exactly, as you say, I have re imagined the way that I practice, and this is sort of a manifestation of that.

Sami: And one of the things I didn’t like about. The way that I was practicing in the u. s But also in the netherlands when I was working in the hospital was that I felt That I was very disconnected from my patients. I only got a sort of a segment of the whole story and there’s a An accessibility problem I would say between Hospital hierarchy there’s the doctors up here The the client is down here and there’s this separation between the two of them the hierarchy of it but also People Can’t talk to their vet enough, right?

Sami: So you you’ll have a 15 minute consultation Maybe you call the vet and you can’t get an appointment for two weeks. Your pet’s sick You can’t even get in there by the time you do eventually get into the clinic Your pet’s extra sick, but you only have 15 minutes and in 15 minutes. It’s not long enough to discuss Everything, you know, like what’s going on at home.

Sami: What’s the environment like? It’s not enough to discuss nutrition the diagnosis the treatment how the all the drugs interact like What the exercise should be what’s the the the level of socialization that the animal has or should have? you know, there’s so there’s not enough time to to go through everything and One of the areas that veterinary medicine fails Like human medicine is that we’re taught to treat the physical body as separate from your mind, right?

Sami: And that’s not how it works There’s so much more that goes into the health of the animal or the illness of the animal And you’re just not getting that in 15 minutes and so I feel like in my current practice I get to Go into the home of the pet and I get so much more information that way That it helps me to be A better doctor to that patient and also with the digital care side of things I get to know the client and the pet so much better and it breaks down this hierarchy and this Disconnect that I find is such an issue in medicine today because it’s not like i’m sammy Dr.

Sami: Marici in my white coat and you can’t even call me You have to call the front desk and maybe i’ll have time to call you back at the end of the day and you don’t Really know me, but now i’m just You Sammy the bat, shoot me a text, tell me what’s going on. You know what I mean?

Mickelle: You’re part of the team

Sami: of that family.

Sami: I’m part of the team. I’m part of the community, right? Yeah. I’m part of the community that’s responsible for the health of your family.

Mickelle: Yeah, it’s really great. And it’s I think it’s really beautiful that you’re doing that. And I think it reflects a different paradigm in medicine all around. But also what I noticed when I, so I purchased, purchased, I adopted, I brought into our family.

Mickelle: However, I don’t even know what I say. Yeah. My family decided it was time to get a dog for our first time. Since we had children I was in a different country. And so I actually felt myself feeling a little bit unmoored in how to make decisions like my intuition. So I grew up with dogs. I grew up with cats.

Mickelle: I grew up like you with lots of animals. So I think I had a good grasp on what my life looked like, what having a dog, but what I, what I underestimated was I ended up adopting a dog that came from Russia. And I know that that was, you know, there’s these signs that you’re kind of without growing up somewhere, you’re kind of blind to.

Mickelle: And so I feel like there’s another part of this of having a partner with a vet when you’re deciding to bring an animal into your life at, even if, even if you are in your home or as an international, especially, I feel that on your team might be worthwhile. And so is that. Yeah. Yeah. Can you give us some tips?

Mickelle: Like if you’re an international family or individual that’s looking to adopt a pet and you’re in a country that you’re maybe not as familiar with, what would you say are some really good things to, to consider?

Sami: Yeah, I would just advise not to do so blindly. Right. And so you have, there are so many, there are so many different layers to this, where to begin.

Sami: But the most important thing I think. Is to, to talk to people, talk to different people that have, you know, dogs, cats, whatever you’re looking to adopt, try to understand, get a feel for the way things work in a country. Because like I, like you said, right, you, you think, you know, how things work, but then you go to a different place and actually it’s, it’s not.

Sami: Very different. And so you have to get a feel for the way things are. What’s the healthcare system like? How, what does it look like to go to the vet? How do I find a vet that I like? And even before that, you know, Where do I adopt an animal? What’s the procedure? Like, do I want to adopt an animal or am I looking for a specific breed?

Sami: And if you’re looking for a specific breed, I would urge you then to then rather consider a rescue. Like you can find a golden retriever or pug or whatever you’re looking for. Unless the shelters are empty, unless the shelters are empty, which they also are outside of the Netherlands, you don’t have to worry about, but there, but you could get them from Germany or, you know, a, Other areas around the world.

Mickelle: There’s there’s animals that need need homes. Yes,

Sami: definitely. And so I always recommend to go that route first over purchasing an animal, especially these like designer dogs, because Especially if you’re going for the very cutesy designer, like multicolored, exotic looking dachshund or cutesy Pomeranian, where we are.

Sami: I have such. She has the cutesy Pomeranian. I have such a cutesy Pomeranian. Yeah, those really, the cutesy Instagram dogs. Are sometimes coming from Russia or places where you don’t really know the story. And then you at 2 AM, the dog comes out of a van that’s been literally driven from Russia and you don’t know the story.

Sami: And it has a microchip that says it’s from Belgium and it’s, it’s illegitimate. Uh, sometimes, not

Mickelle: in my case. No, I’m kidding. But yeah, he’s a great dog.

Sami: He’s a great dog. So it’s not, it’s not all bad and not to say that, right. But you don’t always know what you’re going to get.

Mickelle: Absolutely. That’s the risk.

Mickelle: You don’t even know what you’re going

Sami: to get.

Mickelle: Yeah. And so I, what I think I wish I could have done was checked in with a veterinarian before. And just gotten that. And so is that something people can do? Like reach out to you or reach out to their vet and be like, Hey, I’m thinking of getting a dog. How like 15 minute consultation.

Mickelle: Tell me what I need to know. That’s

Sami: such a good question. So that’s actually something that we do. In veterinary medicine as a profession, that’s something that veterinarians do more in like with horses like with race horses Uh, we call it a pre purchase exam. So if you’re going to buy a thoroughbred and you want to race the horse, That’s a huge financial investment, right?

Sami: So people are not just gonna take what you say at face value and buy the horse there are so many things that can be insidiously affecting the horse’s performance like the the quality of their hooves and their digestion and all these things and so We do like in in medicine for horses or also in, you know, with farm animals, like in terms of you wouldn’t buy a cow that wasn’t very productive for your farm, etc.

Sami: So we do pre purchase exams with the veterinarian comes in and assesses the health of the animal and gives you a recommendation like, Hey, in terms of like what you’re looking for, I wouldn’t buy this animal or I would buy this animal, etc. And I think that’s something that we. Should do more also with companion animals because I’ve had so many cases Where it’s you know, you got super lucky with Banksy.

Sami: Her dog is Banksy and he’s super cute You got super lucky with him, right? Like he’s healthy. He’s lovely. He has a great personality really great dog But that’s not always the case. So I had a case where I Another Pomeranian was adopted by this family, came from Russia was supposedly, you know, great, came from great parents, et cetera.

Sami: They have the paperwork, et cetera, but then the, the dog arrives and it’s. It’s way younger than the passport says, like should not have been taken away from its mother

has

Sami: a horrible heart condition and is so small that we don’t even have surgical instruments small enough to do oral surgery on the job.

Yeah,

Sami: and I had. All these other conditions, right? Also infectious disease, a dog’s full of worms. It had so many comorbidities and such a horrible case because these people spent thousands of euros to import this dog from Russia. I thought they were getting one thing, got another. And ultimately, I mean, the dog was hospitalized from the day that they got it, they spent thousands and thousands of euros in the hopes that they could also save it all because they.

Sami: Were then bonded to the animal and there was nothing we can do and it was horrible

Yeah,

Sami: and so if there had been a pre purchase exam, for example And we had examined that dog before they spent a thousand euros on it or whatever You would have listened to the dog’s heart and known in one second Or the veterinarian would have just showed up and take one look at the dog and say this dog is not

Mickelle: Yeah.

Mickelle: This is not

Sami: old. Also, it has a major heart defect. Do not buy this dog.

Mickelle: Yeah. Well, and I think it’s, it’s really worth mentioning that people do this with, with horses and cows, but in your, the fact like with a companion animal, they affect your life so much, so heavily that. in investment in your life and the, the, the heartbeats that you spend with the animal.

Mickelle: It actually is worth a lot as almost as much probably as a cow might be to a farm in sure that you have the right animal healthy new addition all these things. Uh, yeah. And I can attest, I had a dog, a rescue dog that needed a lot of surgeries and things like that. It was, she just wasn’t healthy.

Mickelle: And that it just impacts your life in. In such a huge way. And I don’t think that people realize because you are in fact fully responsible for this being

Sami: a hundred percent. It’s a part of your family, right? You adopt a dog and you’re, you’re taking on. Yeah. I don’t know, maybe a 15 to 18 in some cases, your commitment and it’s, it’s your little fur baby and you are responsible for it and you need to know what you’re getting into.

Sami: Right. So like another thing that we’re talking about a lot these days in veterinary medicine is. How ethical, like the smush race. Breed dogs are right. Like bulldogs, French bulldogs, pugs, et cetera. Uh, we call them brachycephalic dogs. Brachy means short brachycephalic short nose because these animals have so many health issues and they’re so cute.

Sami: And so, you know, you see all these French bulldogs on Instagram and you’re like, Oh, I want one of those. They’re so cute. I love them. And it’s like, that dog comes out of the womb with at least three. Diagnosable conditions from the, from the moment it’s born. It’s sick. It actually can’t even be born without intervention.

Sami: It can’t be conceived without veterinary intervention. Like French bulldogs cannot conceive on their own. They cannot give birth on their own. Like human, they’re so deformed that there’s a veterinary, without humans, they wouldn’t exist. Natural selection, they’re gone in one generation and they come out.

Sami: Ill they can’t breathe they have Joint defects and spinal defects and within a year they have horrible allergies super inflammatory skin digestive issues They’re suffering. Yeah from the moment they’re born. And so you really have to think I mean, that’s an expensive dog You know it I don’t know depending on where you live in the world like thousands of dollars euros Whatever you’re going to spend because they’re cute and they’re in fashion So they’re going to charge tons of money for them and then you get it and it’s like you’re getting a veterinary bill from the The day they’re born and they’re not many insurance, uh, companies don’t take them or will exclude all the diseases that they know that they already have.

Sami: And so, you know, and so you need to be prepared to take on the responsibility.

Mickelle: It’s almost like, it’s almost like, I hate to compare it to this, but it’s almost like getting like an old car or like a specialty car, like just expect supporting this animal, like knowing that this breed has this, you are committing to this to make sure their life is.

Mickelle: Yeah. And you need to, and, and, and,

Sami: and, Yeah, you just need to know what you’re getting into and you need to be prepared and have the resources to care for it well. Otherwise, it’s irresponsible.

Mickelle: Yeah, it’s super irresponsible. You know? Is that part of, so I think that when you bring an animal into your home, like having someone like you or a vet on your team.

Mickelle: Ahead of time is worthwhile. And then what do you see if are the differences between, like when I was planning on, we, we decided to get a dog. Our kids were a certain age. I looked around my world, around the city I lived in, and I was like, they fit in every aspect. They can fly on the airplane with me.

Mickelle: Mm-Hmm. since what I want, because when you live internationally, you do travel or don’t travel with your dog, but you are traveling. Often. And so what are the things that you tell people to consider when they’re, you know, when they have a lifestyle? Because you obviously have a very you’ve traveled a lot with Luca, but what are the things you tell people about this?

Mickelle: But that’s

Sami: exactly what you have to consider. And so we talked a little bit before about, you have to decide if you’re going to, you know, adopt a dog or if you’re going to get a certain breed of dog, and then you have to consider what kind of dog you’re going to get and whether that’s actually a match for the life that you live.

Sami: So I think a lot of people, the trouble that they get into is that they have an idea of this cute dog that they want, and they don’t think about how. They don’t have enough information about what having a dog like that is like, right? So it seeps into every part of your life. There’s no part untouched and you, right.

Sami: And so you can’t get a dog that doesn’t align with your lifestyle and then just give up your life because then you’re going to resent the dog. The dog isn’t going to have its needs met. It’s going to develop behavioral issues. You really need to Find a dog that fits into your life that you can bring into your life, right?

Sami: So luka is a big dog, but he is super easy and I can just It doesn’t feel like i’m doing extra work to take care of him because he’s perfectly suited to my lifestyle when I go away On holiday and go hiking he can come with me and hike mountains He can sleep in camping tents when I go to work. He can come with me every time I go to the grocery store He comes with me everywhere.

Sami: He comes to the cafe with me If I go to a barbecue at a friend’s house, I bring him along so he just really fits into my life And so he’s the perfect dog for me and my lifestyle. But if I were to have a, say another dog, like, uh, like a Vista, like, uh, these are super high energy dogs. They tend to suffer from separation anxiety.

Sami: It can be super vocal. Like those dogs belong on barbs, like a Vista needs a farm, you know? And, and this isn’t. These aren’t like hard rules. Yeah, right. And so every animal is different. Just like each person is different. Each animal is going to be different. They have different, we’re all the sum of our, our experiences and genetics, et cetera.

Sami: And so not every dog is going to come from the same place and be the same. But generally there are characteristics that are associated with the breed. And so you have to understand that and understand. What dog is right for you because you can’t you can’t give up your life. You don’t get a dog to give up your life.

Sami: You get a dog to bring them into your life. And you have to think about the dog that you’re bringing into your life and whether that really fits. And yeah, and so do you live on a farm or do you live in an apartment? Is that going to work for the dog? How much time do you have for the dog? What is your daily routine like and can you like you have to walk through your day?

Sami: Every day and think about what am I doing? Where am I going? Who am I with? And can you imagine a dog being there and what what that would look like for you? How long do you are you going to leave the dog behind? Can you if you work in the office? Can you leave during lunch and let it out? Do you have other people around you?

Sami: Who’s going to be a part of this dog’s life? Community who’s going to be a part of this dog’s life. It takes a village, right? And so you have to think about who’s there to support you. Who’s part of that community. How are you going to do this really?

Mickelle: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, you have to fly through your life and imagine it with the dog because they touch every part.

Mickelle: Yeah. And I think as an international person as well, you might need a bigger team. So you might need a pet hotel. You might need, you know, a vet that knows about international travel or the rules. You need a little bit more support, I think, as an international person from your, for your dog. Yeah. You need

Sami: your community.

Sami: You need a community of people for you and, and for the animal. And that’s another good point, right? Is you have to beyond like your lifestyle, you need to think about where you live. And if that place is also suitable for the animal, right? Like in Amsterdam, as we’re saying, it’s super dog friendly. I can bring my dog.

Sami: And everywhere I go he can come into every cafe. He can come to the hairdresser with me, you know I mean, it’s very dog friendly dogs run next to the bike. They’re in baskets, etc And there’s a lot of green space tons of parks everywhere There’s also yeah community people have time work life balance is better.

Sami: And and so I live in a place that’s very suitable for my dog. There’s also everything is very local in the netherlands It’s all very like neighborhood Basically say everything like all into birth like everything in the neighborhood, right? You go to the doctor in your neighborhood the vet in your neighborhood the grocery store in your neighborhood It’s not like in the u.

Sami: s Where you’re driving an hour to go see a specialist or you know, get your hair cut. It’s just not that way here. And so It here I have that we have a dog room in the neighborhood a veterinarian in the neighborhood Me also in the neighborhood, you know, and so you have everything that you need nearby Yep.

Sami: And so that,

Mickelle: that’s, it changes how you, how you interact with, like the way, the city you’re in, the place you’re in actually affects your relationship with your pet is what I think.

Sami: Massively. Yeah. Massively. Yeah. Because it affects the kind of life that you’re going to be able to live with that animal.

Mickelle: When I lived in Salt Lake City with a dog, it was massively different than living here because dogs weren’t allowed almost anywhere, restaurants, grocery stores, anywhere. That’s so

Sami: interesting to me because I, I think of Salt Lake City and it’s like a mountain city. City. It’s like a mountain, you know, skiing and at lunch and I just, I envision it as a very like outdoorsy place where like, Dogs are welcome.

Sami: But that’s interesting that that’s not the case.

Mickelle: Yeah, it was a very, it was, but what I, when I was flying through my life here to bring a dog in, I was like, oh, oh, and of course there’s some places he can’t come into and maybe that’s changing a little bit. But for me, what I noticed is that changed how Like, when I imagined the life of the dog and how I would be able to enjoy, how much time I’d be able to enjoy the dog being seen now I really, I really felt that difference and that’s also like something to take into, into account, I think.

Sami: Definitely. Yeah,

Mickelle: definitely. Yeah. Cool. That’s such a

Sami: beautiful thing about Amsterdam, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we met each other through the dogs. Right. Like my, my dog run, he doesn’t have to walk on a leash in our neighborhood because it’s so safe. He runs into the cafe. There are cookies behind every counter, you know, he has like, we called the cookie route in the morning.

Sami: And then at that cafe, I met you also with your dog and you build community that way.

Mickelle: Yeah. It’s so true. I, we only go to the cafes with the cookies like that. Oh

Sami: yeah. Us too. Most of

Mickelle: them

Sami: have them.

Mickelle: Yeah. It’s true. So when people, so what I would say to our, our audience is if you’re thinking of getting a pet consult a vet and if you’re in Amsterdam call Sammy and bring them on board.

Mickelle: Let me talk about this all the time with your international team the village that’s surrounding you, having these types of people on your side sooner than later, because you are really navigating you, even if you’ve had a pet before, you’re doing it differently in a new country. And so make your life better and reach out to these resources would be my recommendation.

Mickelle: So when people want to reach out to you, do they just sign up for your, tell us about your practice a little bit.

Sami: Yeah, you can sign. So I have a website that can sign up for the practice. Also, if you just have questions, you want to reach out, you can use the contact form on the bottom of the website and then go straight to my email.

Sami: I’m super responsive or the best way, honestly, to keep it in touch with me is to sign up for my newsletter. Send me the vet on sub stack. You can interact with my post. I send out pet health information every week. That’s You know, super, uh, current and relevant. And you can also email me through there.

Sami: You can also make book appointments through there. So that’s honestly the best way to keep in touch with me.

Mickelle: Cool. We’ll put that in the show notes and then anything else that we didn’t cover that you want to tell everybody?

Sami: I don’t know. I feel like we had a pretty, a pretty good chat here, actually.

Sami: Quite a few things, but I think what you talk about about, Making a veterinarian a part of your team and bringing them in to your circle and having them be a part of your, your team and community from even from before the time you have the pet is in everyone’s best interest, you know, and because you, you don’t have to make those decisions alone and they can help you make.

Sami: better decisions for your pet before you even have them.

Mickelle: It’s an investment in, in at least a decade or more of the happiness of your entire world. And so I, I, I don’t think it can be overstated. So yeah, I hope people reach out to you, Sami and if not to the vets in their area, and thank you so much for coming on and sharing your life and your practice with us.

Mickelle: And people can reach out to you, we’ll link below and it’s just been great talking to you today. I appreciate it so much.

Sami: Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s been so fun. All

Mickelle: right. I

Sami: love community based initiatives.

Mickelle: That’s right. That’s what it’s all about. You know it. And Sammy is obviously part of the House Peregrine community now.

Mickelle: So, you can find her with us as well. All right. We will talk to you again soon, I hope. Yeah. Cheers. Okay. That’s it for today. I hope you’ve enjoyed our show. For the latest insights on living internationally, join us at HouseofPeregrine. com to find out how you can connect with our community. Let’s craft our life story with intention together.