Mickelle: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to the House of Peregrine podcast. Today I have with me Jasmine Cook from Nina dot care, who has joined us to talk about her au pair agency that is operating in the Netherlands, Germany, and England. With new markets coming online next year. Jasmine, I would love to start out by asking you about nina.
care and a little bit about what you guys are up to.
Jasmijn: Sure. Yeah. So I founded the company four years ago with my twin sister, Leila. And what we do is actually we place out pairs from all over the world with families, just to allow them to be free and do the things that they like, knowing that their kids are being taken care of.
Mickelle: I can really attest to that that, that freedom bit. And I like how you say freedom and not to get into it too quickly, but I like how you use the word freedom because that doesn’t mean that you’re separate necessarily, or Going out [00:01:00] and partying or something. It really is freedom to be the best parent you can and the best partner and the most whole person, I think.
Which I really like that you guys have that as a value. So nina. care is an all payer agency, but I want to back up a little bit and talk about who you and your sister, like how you guys got started. Who are you? Tell us a little bit about you.
Jasmijn: Yeah I’m 32 now, actually trained as an architect.
So it wasn’t at all the plan to start this opera agency. It escalated a bit. Basically we started out being 16 years old and babysitting a lot, and then noticing that there was this demand. And it grew quite quickly, but the small babysitting service that we had. Actually just, working weekends and evenings, even after finishing our studies and our career, we kept on doing this.
And then we found out that actually there was a big demand also for outbears. Some parents are asking for [00:02:00] it and we got the license to be an outbear agency. It took us two years to get the license, by the way, but we got there. And then actually it just kept growing and growing. Because there was a demand and we just really love doing it.
And that’s how we got like in a nutshell where we are today.
Mickelle: Nice. And why don’t you tell me the difference between an au pair and an and a nanny or an au pair and a babysitter?
Jasmijn: Yeah, so I get the question a lot. And an au pair comes from abroad and lives with a family usually for about a year. And the nanny just comes in the morning and leaves in the evening.
So it’s and usually they’re a little bit more expensive also because outbears are a cultural exchange. So because they can live with you and they are yeah in your house and you give them food, you actually just give them a thank you pocket money. You don’t really pay them salary. So there really are significant differences to the two.[00:03:00]
Mickelle: I see. And so it’s a cultural exchange, which means that somebody wants to experience where you’re living. Is that, how would you define cultural exchange?
Jasmijn: Yeah, it’s about coming to a new country. And then while being in a safe space with a family exploring the food, the language, we also, for example, offer Dutch courses and first aid and events such as going to the tulip fields or like ice skating in Amsterdam, just to experience a new world.
Mickelle: I see. That’s amazing. And so it sounds like you guys. Your agency, nina. care, actually might take it a step beyond other agencies by arranging cultural experiences for these mostly women, right? Is it mostly women or do you have some male au pairs?
Jasmijn: We have a few, I would say 1%, but we are very much in favor of male outbears.
So if you are a male outbear listening to this, or please sign up [00:04:00] with us. No, but yes we love to organize these events. We also arranged the outpayment of the outbear because we believe agencies can do much more than the standard agencies currently do.
Mickelle: Okay. So I want to Yeah, I totally agree.
And I want to back up a little bit to you and your sister. What do you think you noticed or what made you passionate about doing things differently in this space?
Jasmijn: We just found out that there is a big demand from both the Alper and the host family. that is not really being met. So when you arrive in a new country, you really want to connect to other outbears.
You want to feel supported. And I noticed from host families that they want to be checked in upon, like not too often because you’re busy, obviously, but when you need some support in, for example, discussing some [00:05:00] things that aren’t working nicely with your outbear, or you want some support in how to arrange your visa or some documents with the bank.
That is where I think the true value lies and we just make it more digital and modern and we make it easy. Whereas other agencies I feel often take a really, I don’t know, old fashioned and not so proactive approach. We like to be that personal proactive agency.
Mickelle: So you take a more, you provide more structure and maybe more support than other agencies.
But what I want to know is. There’s a reason for that and I love getting to the heart of the reason because it seems to me that you spent some time, a lot of time of your formative years, babysitting for families, you and your sister. And then you must have noticed some things that were unique or maybe had some more empathy for The families and what they were trying to accomplish in their lives while being good parents and being good adults.[00:06:00]
Maybe you noticed that
Jasmijn: for sure. And I just, I’m not a parent yet. Hope to be someday in my life, but I just I’m just impressed by how you do that. You have. Life like work, you want to have a good relationship with your partner. You always, I can imagine, feel guilty, not spending enough quality time because you need to also arrange so many things.
And I’m just so inspired by these parents. And I want to help them by taking away the things that are not contributing to those yeah, life goals of them. That’s something that we can do and that we can do actually really well. And that I want to help these parents with. Yeah, it’s partly because I think I really care about decent business and integrity.
And I think we should just stand for quality. And it’s partly because I’m just really impressed by parents and how they do what they do.
Mickelle: And that’s actually a really beautiful sentiment that you have a respect for what parents are doing in the [00:07:00] world. And I also love that you said what you said about business, doing business in a really high quality and lovely way.
But also I think you also have a really a soft spot for these au pairs and what they want to experience. I can see that in the way you want to plan activities for them and actually have them experience, have that cultural exchange they’re coming from or for.
Jasmijn: Yeah. And just this morning about 15 or 20 of them were in our office, which is why we’re now calling it this cubicle because and just seeing them and hearing them introduce themselves from.
all over the world. It just makes my heart make a little jump because I’m just sitting back behind the computer, usually working through files and Excel sheets. And then you see these little human beings living their dreams because of you. And it just, it’s incredible.
Mickelle: Yeah. And that, that notion that you have respect and caring for all parties, actually, I think is a big differentiator.
Not that other agencies don’t, but if I [00:08:00] think You have these core values that I would love for you to share with us that drive what you’re doing at Nina. care.
Jasmijn: Yeah. So we have three that are the most important for us internally also it’s freedom. So we want to help parents and our parents experience it.
Also the people. The team at Nina. care, for example, can work just remote for a month if they want and more because we live by freedom. Then the other one is ownership. So we do expect outbears, host families, also our team to take responsibility and to follow up and to take ownership. And the last one actually is, it’s a bit strange one.
It’s a sparkly. It’s about bringing joy and happiness and it’s filters back to everything that we do.
Mickelle: Sparkly. I’ve really liked that. That’s, why not? Yeah. It’s if when you actually start out to, it’s a little bit, having a business I think is a little bit like having children where, [00:09:00] You’re going to be doing a lot of things that you don’t like, going to be doing a whole lot of things you do but you might as well make it your own.
And so I really like that you really I really like that you use sparkly because that’s a word that means to you. Tell us what that means to you.
Jasmijn: Yeah. It just means the type of mentality or attitudes that you use towards everything you challenges customers. Yeah. And it’s about doing things.
In a certain way yeah. What about you then? Because for House of Peregrine, what are your core values and how does it define you?
Mickelle: It’s funny because ours are very closely aligned, which is what sometimes ends up happening for people that I bring on the podcast. And I think it’s freedom. And my word for sparkly is magic usually.
And I think that magic piece without it, that’s what drives me is making things. We always say what makes something Peregrine. And I say it’s the magic. It’s the magic that you feel. It’s the magic between people. It’s the [00:10:00] magic of meeting people from around the world, having a lot in common with them, and then bringing that, exposing that to the experience of living abroad.
And yeah, I think we’re really closely aligned in how we do business and why we’re doing business, which yeah, I think it’s really lovely what you’re doing. And I have three children and they’re not tiny anymore, but when they were I really did experience this lack of respect, not like you have to respect me as a mom, but this lack of respect for what you’re going through.
Which is listen, I don’t want to be away from my kid, but I also need to do things in the world as an adult. And what you’re talking about, which is this responsibility that you have to each other, is actually a really beautiful way of looking at it. Because I did, and again, I’m not saying that this doesn’t exist in the world, but what I like is that you have it at the forefront of what you’re doing.
Because I think without that this is a very human process, watching children, helping a family. It’s a very almost, I don’t want to say [00:11:00] holy, but it is very important in the life of a family. And that gets really muddy really easily. And I think that’s where the support you have for families really becomes a glue to make, to protect that experience.
And to Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that process? Because when you bring someone into your home and you let them watch your children, I always tell my kids, at least I did when they were little you’re my most important thing and I’m leaving that to someone else. And so they, they are very trusted and they’re doing exactly what I tell them to.
And so the respect for the nanny almost came from the mother from me saying this person is. is someone that I trust. And so that is a really big deal. I don’t want to over, I don’t want to say, but like people are making like another Uber and this company is actually, [00:12:00] bridging the gap between a mother and a child or a father and a child so that they can both do what they need to do in the world.
And so I don’t want to overstate it, but it is an amazing. And a very important job that you’re having these people do helping these people do. And so I want you to go over a little bit the structure that you provide for families and au pairs that maybe is the differentiator.
Jasmijn: Yeah, no, I 100 percent agree.
And the responsibility is so big for au pairs. So we start with the screening and the matching, because there needs to be good fit. So we’d rather spend a bit more time in the beginning than having to solve issues later on because core values don’t align or because expectations weren’t set correctly.
So it started off, we get a thousand applications each week on our platform.
Mickelle: Wow.
Jasmijn: But we need to find, so we developed a algorithm to [00:13:00] help us at least select the core things that need to match. For example, if you are a vegetarian, you’re looking for a vegetarian out there, let’s not interview. people that are not.
So then there’s the first selection that we make with our algorithm. And after that,
Mickelle: so you must ask the au pairs a lot of questions and the families a lot of questions.
Jasmijn: It’s we do, but that’s what I mentioned, invest a bit in the front. So first you answer a couple of questions. I would say the form is maybe five minutes, but afterwards you also have a 45 minute interview with us and it might sound excessive, but it really is to get an idea of what, yeah, what you are like as a family.
So that when we interview the outbears, we can make a good, Yeah. Good selection and suggest you candidates that match with you. For example, in privacy, for example, in proactiveness but also how wild are you, do you want to go party all night or are you more like a let’s cocoon inside and stay home?[00:14:00]
It needs to align.
Mickelle: And so that process is probably really important. And so then you’re saying you do a lot of work up front to make sure to qualify the au pair and the family that they’re a good match. And then. The process of placing an au pair from, they’re coming from another country into the Netherlands, Germany, or England.
And so you help with that paperwork, is that right?
Jasmijn: Yes. So the first part is the matching and the second part is where our visa experts step in. So after the match, they guide the out there, but also the host family through all the paperwork. We also built our own platform where you can easily upload the documents so you don’t have to print it out, sign it, and then propose, send it back to the agency.
So we did digitalized all that part. And then we have, of course, knowledge of the regulations from Philippines and South Africa. Every process in every country is different. The embassies are different. So we guide you through [00:15:00] that. And of course, like I said, we’re a licensed agency, so we can actually in the Netherlands also file the visa for you.
Mickelle: Nice. That’s really, I want to, I’m so curious about the nuts and bolts of this, but also I don’t want to lose sight of the fact that this is a service of someone coming. This is the process of someone coming to live in your house. That’s the difference between an au pair and a nanny is au pair and a nanny and an au pair and a babysitter.
But there’s rules around this. There’s rules. So this person, if they work out is with you for in the Netherlands, it’s a year. Is that right?
Jasmijn: Yes. Maximum of one year. It can be shorter.
Mickelle: It can be shorter. And when you’re placing, there’s must be pivotal points in the process. the life of a family that people hire au pairs.
And what have you seen? Is there something that you’ve noticed? Obviously when you first have a baby, that might be a moment. But what are the other things that you’ve noticed? reasons that people might bring an au pair into their home? [00:16:00]
Jasmijn: Yes, it’s such a good question. Usually when I speak to these new families, they are going through a lot.
They’re moving, the third baby is on the way and they’re changing jobs at the same time. But like we discussed like respect to families because it’s just life is challenging. And there’s a lot to do. So I speak families that are having a new baby on the way a lot, actually, because they realize Oh, adding this new complexity to, to the life, it won’t allow me to prioritize in the same way anymore.
I need help. I’m not able to do this anymore. And the first baby on the way, because simply put in Netherlands, daycares are full and they have no other way anymore. So they’re open to trying something new.
Mickelle: And I, so is it mostly when parents get tapped out, for lack of a better word, they’re like, okay, this is beyond us now.
Because I think parents do try and do it all themselves a lot [00:17:00] to start.
Jasmijn: Yeah. Yeah. Hardly ever. It’s Oh I think I could use a bit more me time. Usually it’s Oh, no, it’s usually my parents got sick or daycare is not having any space or I have to, there’s big life changes and suddenly they really can’t take it anymore.
Mickelle: Yeah. And do you see, I would add to this, that when people move, Do you see a lot of people who are expats or internationals who have just moved here, they’ve left their support system and now they, they know they’re going to need help?
Jasmijn: Yes. That’s a really good reason because Dutch families often solve it still with the parents a lot actually, but then that’s simply not an option for expats.
So a large part of our customers are indeed from abroad.
Mickelle: And that, I think, is I wish that when you first arrive as an expat or an international or someone, I wish there was just like, and this is what I’m trying to [00:18:00] create, obviously, is these are the people you’re going to need on your team. And someone would look over and be like, Oh, you have.
kids, you’re going to need an au pair nanny or something. Just that raw recognition before you have to figure it out yourself that you’re going to need extra help, I think is missing not only societally in general, but especially when you’re an international person. Because often there’s a big burnout that happens with international families especially with the amount of change that’s going on already in a family.
And then you add an international move. And so I really wish that someone would have just said, you’re going to need this. Just budget for it. Just plan for it. Until your kids are a little bit older, because the actual work of being an international person is already a job. Even if you’re a, what they call a trailing spouse, which I hate that phrase, but, or if you’re still figuring out the next phase of your career you’re going to need an extra set of [00:19:00] hands.
And so I think I wish if there was a welcome packet, I would put that in it for parents. And even if you start out with a babysitter, would you actually also do right? You guys also have a babysitter arm. Is that right? Yeah.
Jasmijn: Yeah. Then you simply. Place a booking, indicate the times and dates, and we can select a screened candidate.
It might be a bit less impactful than inviting somebody to your home straight away, but I just want a second what you just mentioned, because people sometimes feel I have to be able to do all this because this is life, but actually life is not the same anymore, and responsibilities on parents are just It’s just really big.
And it’s not like you’re a bad parent if you have help just somebody who keeps things running in the house so that you can spend the quality time with your kids. You don’t need to do all these things. So what I always, what my favorite phrase is make the weekly schedule of your out there. You can put in 30 hours and that’s it.
30 hours of things that [00:20:00] you will not be doing anymore. The groceries or the cooking or the dishwasher or the laundry, like all these things are not quality time. You should be spending them with your kids if you want. So yeah that’s my favorite part where you can make the schedule and see what you’re not going to do anymore.
Mickelle: Yeah, that’s amazing. And when I had little kids, that was my biggest challenge, was I just wanted to cuddle them and hug them. I had to keep, I had to keep life running, right? And when they’re little, that’s all they need from you is to be cuddled. They don’t care if you’re doing the dishes. But then, the wisdom of the time was, Oh, enjoy your kids while you’re, while they’re little.
But don’t miss out on this time. But then there’s only so much you can let go of as an adult person. And so I think the recognition that we’re all coming to hopefully sooner than later is that if there isn’t a village, you need to make a village. And part of that village, if you’re making one is, especially if you’re living internationally or your parents are sick, or if you’re a village for some reason.[00:21:00]
can’t be there for you in this way in this season this is a very valuable option. But I think the one thing I would say is that it’s not an option to do it all yourself. That’s not what responsibility means. And so I really love this idea of it being necessary.
Jasmijn: How did you solve your childcare challenges when your kids were younger?
Mickelle: A mix. So before we moved here, we had a couple of like au pair types. Help, but I always said, Oh, I’m staying home with my kids. Cause I, I stopped working for a bit. I always thought, Oh, I can do it all still because I don’t have a paid job. And so that was a journey. And you’ll, if you’ve listened to my Ted talk, you can see that my partner and I went through quite a journey about this with our community back where I’m from in Salt Lake city.
And also within our partnership, because we both thought I should be able to do everything that wasn’t working. And so that was a quite. I think for the time [00:22:00] it was also quite maybe bold. But then I just started, the more I had help, the more I realized I needed more help. I had three babies under five.
And that was just a really intense thing. And I think we patched it together. And so I think that’s why I’m so enamored by what you’re doing. And we have gone through agencies, but I, like I said, that fundamental lack of respect for. And it probably went both ways. You could tell the agencies also were used to being maybe dealing with not so nice people always.
But I think the fundamental respect for parenting in general has gone up since I’ve become a mom. I think we’re starting to realize the pandemic and through. all these things that actually it’s a really valuable job. And I became a mother in a time where we were still coming into that. And that also reflected in my personal journey.
So how I solved it, I would really not wish for other people to solve it that way. So I’m happy that [00:23:00] things like your company are coming into being with this fundamental respect for parenting and children and parents and what they’re up against in our society. Because for me, I think it is a service.
Okay, so I want to move on to a little bit back into the reasons that an au pair comes and their experience with the family. What are their, what are au pairs normally? They’re coming for adventure. Give us a little bit of their side of the story.
Jasmijn: Sure. So the au pairs generally are between 18, 18 years and 25 years old.
Sometimes they just finished their education and just want to travel and explore. Sometimes they already worked. So
Mickelle: like a gap year or something?
Jasmijn: Yeah, like a gap year, indeed. And sometimes they worked for a while and then they find that, found out it’s not what [00:24:00] makes them happy and they want to get Back to their core and personal development is their main focus.
So for some, it’s just always been a dream to travel abroad. Maybe because they’re from a bit more less developed, like a less developed country and they want to see Europe. So what’s for us is very important when we do our screening is to check the motivation because sometimes you notice people are just here to earn money and that’s not the correct reason because.
You might not even like it, or you’d just be here as a job. And that’s not the goal of a cultural exchange. The beauty arises when you want to help a family, and in return, have a beautiful experience in a new country. So that’s what we really select on.
Mickelle: And that’s a huge difference. That’s a massive difference, if you think about it.
And this idea of exchange. Is sounds like core to the culture exchange, but is that also core to the way the visa works? Is that the idea of the visa for the year? Or is that [00:25:00] something you guys have?
Jasmijn: No, you’re 100 percent correct. And actually the immigration services does audits on our screening process, requests, files, and administration.
It’s also partly why it’s relatively expensive to pay an agency because we are audited a lot and our administration needs to be really on top of that. On par we are fined quite heavily if we don’t comply with rules and regulation. And for example, the screening hasn’t been done correctly. What you can, for example, imagine is when an outbear finds a boyfriend decides to stay here on a partner visa, a hundred percent, the IND will Check the file.
Did you interview this out there correctly? Did you ask her if she wanted to be here to find a husband or for the cultural exchange? We’re not against outbears finding husbands. Love happens, especially in this age of around 25. Maybe you fall in love and you stay can happen, but it shouldn’t be your motive to come here.
Mickelle: Got it. And so [00:26:00] that, that is the, that is why they provide this visa for a year. Is this exchange of value basically. And so you just have to ask the question. You can’t know their motive, but that you have to ask the question a certain way.
Jasmijn: Yeah. We train our recruiters to ask questions and not just one, but to follow up.
It’s for the motivation, but it also goes for example, can you swim? Because of course outbursts want to be an outburst, they say, yes, I can swim. But then you have to ask can you actually go into the water when a kid is falling in? Or would you prefer to stay up till your knees? Or how deep are you comfortable, how deep are you willing to go into the water?
It sounds really stupid, but you have to really ask these follow up questions.
Mickelle: Yep, and get specific. So I want to, and that’s really important, right? Getting specific is what you need to do, because Yeah, it makes total sense. So I want to talk about a little bit about common, because it is a really close working [00:27:00] relationship and it is going to have conflict, misunderstandings misalignments of expectations.
And so walk me through some common, maybe things that you help people smooth over with their au pair or their, with their host family.
Jasmijn: Yeah I have plenty of stories. But what we do, for example, is when your outfit arrives, you receive our welcome package. In this package, you will find the house rules.
It’s a printed paper. Which you can fill in and it has some basic agreements that you might not think about. For example do how much time in advance do you let us know if you’re not joining us for dinner? Because you know you want to be able to count on someone. When is laundry day because it’s, It’s annoying if you can’t do your laundry because the outbear is all the time doing her laundry.
When do you use the bathroom or the, like the showering in the morning, how do you arrange it with the fridge? Can you just take everything out or are some things your special guilty pleasure? You don’t want them to touch it. Just stupid [00:28:00] things or boyfriends. How do you deal with them? Are they welcome in the house or you’d prefer them to meet in the city?
Is it not allowed? And it’s like you mentioned, it’s an interesting relationship, a beautiful one, if you ask me, but it’s not like one we know because it’s not an employee or employee. It’s not a family member. It’s not a boyfriend, girlfriend. It’s not a niece. So what is it then? And to set these structured rules, we have the house rules that you fill in together in your first week.
Mickelle: Nice. And that’s really important because otherwise you’re left to your own devices. And at least for me now, I’m a seasoned hiring babysitter person, but especially at first, and especially if someone’s living in your house, this is the first time you’ve had that. And so it’s really nice that you provide some wisdom and guidance.
And so what happens if someone eats someone’s yogurt too many times and they get fed up? What happens then?
Jasmijn: Yeah, usually it’s or the host or the out there calling us saying, listen, this happened. I’m so angry. [00:29:00] And it comes down to a little bit of coaching, how to approach the situation and discuss it together.
If they really can’t work it out after our tips, then we do a three way conversation and we just mediate. And facilitate. And usually it works out. Usually it’s just a cultural difference where we didn’t dare to say it because we want to be welcoming to the au pair. And the au pair honestly didn’t know it wasn’t meant for her.
So
Mickelle: yeah. Is yogurt a good example? Be honest. What are the other, what are some other good ones? It seems small, but it becomes big at some point.
Jasmijn: Oh, it’s a really good example. We have plenty of these. Yeah. And then it’s interesting because these are usually the, our customers, they’re well educated.
They work 40 hours a week. They’re managers, directors, CEOs. But still, because it’s in your private space. It becomes personal and it’s difficult. So I just, humans are just [00:30:00] beautiful to work with and everybody has their triggers in their own way. And then adding a new culture to the mix, it makes things complex.
Mickelle: Absolutely. And at least in my world, I found that I had a really hard time at first saying anything to the nanny because I didn’t want it to affect the relationship with my child. Okay. And that’s a silly thing to think when you look back on it. But at first, when it’s your first time doing it, it makes perfect sense.
You want them to feel, generally positive and loving towards your kid and you don’t want them to take any anger out on your child. And so again, backwards thinking, something you have to grow into just like any leadership position or relationship. But I really like how you say, it’s a hard to place relationship because it really is.
Do you have any.
Jasmijn: Do you have any more tips for parents on how to, no, what you’ve learned to the past with nannies or outbears?
Mickelle: Hire someone. Hire
Jasmijn: an agency.
Mickelle: No, but I think what’s really hard [00:31:00] with an agency, at least in my experience, was that it’s very impersonal sometimes. And that comes through because you can’t, it can’t, you’re not just hiring an Uber, right?
But some, sometimes it feels that way. Oh, we can replace them easily. That’s good. But just being able to call someone and be like, I don’t like them and then have them be replaced. That’s a hostile situation. And so the mediation and the actual relationship building is actually needed. And it’s something that I think Again, like I’m talking about, I’ve been a parent for 13 years and I think in a really interesting 13 years where we’ve come around to things.
But in that time I saw a lot of agencies spring up that were just like, Oh, we just play someone. It doesn’t matter who in your home and you’ll always have a babysitter. And it’s yeah, but then it makes it so you don’t form an attachment and you do need to form, not an attachment, I need you, you have to do this or something, but it does have to be a relationship [00:32:00] that you form because it is a human thing you’re doing. You’re not creating a spreadsheet, you’re caring for someone else’s human. And so I think I’ve seen it swing that way from not having any help to trying to maybe industrialize it to now what I think you’re doing, which I think is really important that you mediate, but you and there’s always been mediators, but this fundamental respect for what everyone’s up to and what everyone’s needs are and having that fundamental respect for parents and not in a, like a, they’re the boss type of way, but you guys are doing something hard, let’s help you.
It’s a major shift from what it was. In the past, and maybe also in the US where I was, it’s you, since you’re not doing what you should do, which is stay home with your kids, sure, we’ll get you a nanny, but there’s this guilt, this overall thing, this overall feeling, and it probably comes both ways, that you’re the mother, you should be doing this, but fine.
will provide [00:33:00] someone for you.
Jasmijn: Yeah, but actually I believe that there is a really big value in exploring your own interests, being the best version of yourself as a mother or father, and then having somebody, for example, the Alpers that we select, they love kids, they love to teach them English and to give that energy and Yeah, if you balance that you’re not born to be a mom or dad you’re you’re born to be you So it’s just a part of you and you want to give the best part of you
Mickelle: Yep, and that’s actually what I came to and so after ten or so years, I actually split my time differently but It was because there wasn’t a comfy relationship based place I could find that could provide this.
So we just restructured our entire life to be able to spend that quality time with our kids. And really Tell me more about
Jasmijn: that. How did you do that?
Mickelle: So my partner and I are both in startups. We both have our [00:34:00] own startups, but we live five. We never go for work unless we have to more than five minutes from our house.
So we, I’m there to pick the kids up from school, see their friends, all this stuff. And then we usually work late into the night. And we have had babysitters and these things, but what we learned with the services that they can just replace them at any time is that we still need to be there for the relationship.
They’re just there to create safety especially when they’re little or toddlers or something. And I honestly think. It was so hard to do it that way. I’m proud of us for doing it that way, but it was because this evolution of the importance of parenting hadn’t really hit the zeitgeist yet. And again, I wouldn’t want to be away for weeks at a time.
That’s not how I would have wanted to be a parent, but this, what we set up was in basically so we could be our own village and then have like contractors come in that are babysitters sometimes. And I think that is a really hard [00:35:00] way to do it, even though we’ve done it and I’m proud of our family for doing it.
And in a foreign country, I think there’s something to, there’s a long way to go in actually And I think you’re, I love what you’re doing is that you’re actually acknowledging these things is that this relationship is really important and it is a relationship. Like you said, not a family member, not a child, not a something, but something else.
And I think that’s actually really beautiful.
Jasmijn: Yeah, thank you. I agree. And tell me, because you say you work late into the evening. So what does the regular day for you look like? And how late do you work? And do you have energy for that?
Mickelle: I think What I’ve accepted is that this part of my life is going to be insane.
And I did stop working for eight years. So I stayed with the children for eight years and then started again when they got a little bit older. But I would have preferred not to stop working. I think that was for me, at least not a great choice. But. Our day looks like, so [00:36:00] work starts at 6, get the kids off to school at 8, 30 or whatever, and then back to work, and then I take a break in the afternoon for the kids.
We have dinner as a family every night, my partner works U. S. time, so we have dinner a little bit later, so around 8, and then meetings, late meetings, and then to bed around midnight, and then back up at 6. Wow.
But don’t you have a sleep deprived, aren’t you sleep deprived? It sounds like it’s not eight hours a night, huh?
Eight
Mickelle: hours a night, no. That is the trade off. But our kids are now getting a little bit older. They’re needing us a little bit differently. So when they were tiny, it was much different. But what I would say is now we’re we are doing the same thing we did when the kids were little, but with our tasks.
Having a personal assistant instead of a nanny. because the kids can get themselves around. And so we’re transitioning into the same mindset, which is we still want the quality time, right? We always give the screen time to the nannies or to the [00:37:00] babysitters if we have them now.
And we’re like, we want the quality time. So we’ve actually oriented our entire life around that quality time. And so that’s just our priority right now. But yes, sleep is not our priority at the moment. So that, maybe that’s a good question. Do you ever have au pairs for older kids?
Like My kids are pretty old. They’re 10, 11, and 13.
Jasmijn: Yeah. Usually then it’s the logistics that they can’t, the parents can’t work around to drive them to sport lessons which is a challenging one because outbears are younger, don’t always have driver’s license. And when you’re not from Schengen area or like around Europe, then your driver’s license is valid for only six months in the Netherlands.
That’s a bit challenging, but yes, for sure. Especially the older kids because then they speak English already a little bit and the parents are more comfortable sometimes to trust somebody else. Yeah. Mostly though, it’s younger.
Mickelle: Yeah. And what I’ve learned [00:38:00] is that there’s. No bakfiets experience either.
Oh, yeah.
Mickelle: So they’re sometimes afraid of riding a bike which is totally understandable, right? If you’re not from here, but the whole city works on bikes. I live in the center of Amsterdam So it my entire life is bike car share adjacent some sort of combination And so that’s really what drove us to you know stopping with the nanny because I was asking them every time Can you ride a Bockfietz?
Otherwise I’m not going to send them with the kids. And yeah, maybe that’s a big thing for you guys. Do you provide Bockfietz training?
Oh, we
Jasmijn: don’t have the Bockfietz training, which I actually like as an idea. But we do have a really in depth questions about the fietzing skill, the biking skills. Because Yeah, we’ve had really tiny small Filipino outbears that simply didn’t have the power or didn’t fit on the buckfeet and that led to rematch.
So apart from strength and fitness, we also ask questions, okay, you can bike [00:39:00] for this family is really important. Show me a video, show me that you can actually bike because it happens. People say yes and they don’t. So yeah, it’s, I’ve had that a lot,
Mickelle: Very specific to the Netherlands. I never thought I’d be like, okay, so you have all this experience, CPR training.
What about riding a bike? But it’s really important. No, but that’s really, maybe you can start some classes because, even international people can use a Bachfeet’s training, so you could just offer a Bachfeet’s training for nannies and. in the city. But yeah, so that, the advice I would give now is find a good partner in finding that family member for you.
And I do think we’re at a moment in time that’s different from when I started being a parent. And I’m really happy about that. And I hope that I’ve played some small part in that. Because I did go through a personal evolution about value and how I spend my time and all this stuff. So I love what you’re bringing into the world for that reason too.
Jasmijn: That’s beautiful. [00:40:00] Thank you.
Mickelle: Yeah. And so I love that you, so you help the au pair, you help the family, you mediate this relationship, which is new for everybody, including the au pair. Usually I’m assuming they haven’t done it more than once or twice, maybe. And then It’s time to leave. So they can only stay for a year in your home.
Is that right?
Jasmijn: Yes, indeed. And so then
Mickelle: do you usually help people find another au pair? Yes. If they’re still in that spot?
Jasmijn: Yeah, we check in, in time do you, it’s time again, do you want to start with your new au pair? And the reason for this is because if you start in time, there could also be a nice overlap between the two au pairs so that they can train each other.
And for the kids, it’s nice to have a goodbye party to learn in life. People, they don’t die, but they sometimes leave. They will need to learn it in class as well when they’re, when a teacher, for example, found a new job. And this way you can create a safe and. [00:41:00] Positive goodbye experience. Which I think would be really insightful for the kids as well.
Mickelle: Absolutely. And that’s what I ended up protecting my kids from, was these attachment injuries. Which was like, the nanny just decided not to come anymore, or the agency just replaced her, because she wasn’t, happy or I, we weren’t happy. And so that’s a, for kids, a really big problem.
And that’s what I started seeing. And so that’s really important that we acknowledge these tiny people and their processes and their attachments and what they’re going through. And so I really liked that you have that. Yeah, perfect. And then, they can stay for a year. We didn’t go over one thing, which I think might be really interesting for people.
So it’s a little bit backtracking, but so to have an au pair, you need to have a room in your house that they can stay. Is that right?
Jasmijn: Yes, but it doesn’t have to be a separate house or a separate. So it can just be a bedroom and you can share the bathroom. As long as it has a window and a door and it’s just a nice place to stay, then your house is suitable.[00:42:00]
Mickelle: Got it. Okay. That’s really important. So they need to have their own bedroom with a window and a door and then, but they can share a bathroom with your family. And then they work 30 hours a week. Is that what I heard you say?
Jasmijn: Correct. Yeah. You make a week schedule for 30.
Mickelle: And then they usually eat with you, you provide food, housing and then a small stipend.
Is that right? Or how does that work?
Jasmijn: Yes. So there is a monthly stipend of around 340 euros, a little bit extra if you want to provide for the OV and mobile phone charges as well. Around, it’s around 500 euro per month if you take it all in. And the does usually eat dinner with your family, but some families decide, okay, no we eat a bit later because like your family does.
And then the Alper eats with the kids and then she’s off in the afternoon or maybe she goes to friends. That’s, it’s not mandatory to have dinner together. It is a nice moment to bond and share though. So usually at least three days a week, families [00:43:00] do eat together.
Mickelle: Got it. Okay. And then When it’s time to say goodbye they leave.
They you bring someone else in, but what is, what would you say you see in families? What is the, what are people, what are families telling you about having an au pair?
Jasmijn: Yeah I’m usually really excited when I get feedback because they’re like, Oh, I can spend quality time with my kids again. Or I should have thought of this earlier.
Or I brought seven new families to you. Of course, sometimes I wasn’t supported enough or something like this. And then I try to find out. But the wishes also differ a bit in how much contact you want to have with your agency. Some just prefer not to be bothered. So we’re balancing this now.
Mickelle: Of course.
Yeah. And I think that’s the key is that you’re there if, because again, like you’re learning as you go to how to have an au pair but maybe some people are better at it than others or maybe the match is better. Very cool. So where do you [00:44:00] think Nina. care is going to be in, what is your dream for it in 10 years or five years?
Let’s say five years. That’s sooner. Yeah.
Jasmijn: So what I’m really surprised about is that there is no international agency Okay. Placing and supporting outbears in several countries. And we want to be that agency. We want to be the outbear agency. So that’s where I see our company in five years.
Mickelle: Nice. That is surprising, isn’t it? It’s probably because there’s so many differences in countries and all this stuff, but Do you think other countries, do other countries have au pair visas similar to the Netherlands?
Jasmijn: Yeah, it’s, you are 100 percent correct. It’s because the regulations are different in each country.
So that makes it, challenging. However, they all differ only slightly. So it’s, for example, 280 pocket money or 420 pocket money, or the age is maximum 27 instead of 25. So the topics are all the same, just the answers are slightly different.
Mickelle: So [00:45:00] maybe you’ve just seen a golden opportunity. I think so.
That’s amazing. Very cool. So in five years, you want to be the International Au Pair Agency.
Jasmijn: Yeah, if you think Au Pair, oh, Nina don’t care. That’s what I want.
Mickelle: Got it. We didn’t ask, where did Nina come from?
Jasmijn: Yeah, no, it’s it’s a girl’s name. So you can sign off with with love Nina. And it’s short and fresh and that fits the brand.
Yeah, so basically those, and it works in several languages. There is no cursing word anywhere called Nina, so that’s good.
Mickelle: Got it. Okay. So it’s a very internationally, it’s very, it’s your brand in essence, Nina. Very cool. It’s our
Jasmijn: brand. Yeah.
Mickelle: Very cool. So where, I want to thank you for coming on.
I want you to thank you for going down all the paths I wanted to go down because I’m very passionate about this. How children are treated in the world and how mothers and parents and [00:46:00] also au pairs and nannies are treated in the world. And so I just, I think it’s lovely the way you’re doing things.
I’m so happy I could bring you on and have this conversation. I want people to be able to find you. How do people find you?
Jasmijn: Yes. So thanks so much. And I also truly enjoyed the conversation. It’s nina. care. If you just type it in or download our app, you’ll find us.
Mickelle: Okay, great. And we’re going to be offering some special things for House of Peregrine members, so everyone can watch the webpage and the app for us.
And we’ll be doing some fun things with Nina. care because we believe in what you guys are doing and how it can serve the international community. And so watch for that coming up. Go to nina. care if you have questions. And Jasmine, thank you again so much for coming on. I’m really looking forward to watching you become the international, the premier international agency for au pairs in the world.
Jasmijn: Let’s grow together. Really enjoyed our conversation.
Mickelle: Sounds great.