Mickelle (00:00) Hello and welcome everyone to the House of Peregrine podcast. Today I’m joined by Amanda Molenaar from Amanda Maxine Coaching. I am so happy to have you on the podcast today, Amanda. Can you please start by introducing yourself to everyone?
Amanda Molenaar (00:17) First of all, thank you so much, Mickelle, for inviting me. And yes, I can definitely introduce myself. My name is Amanda and I’m a life coach for high achieving expats. And I have been an international and ambitious person myself, lived abroad many times. And I worked as a diplomat for the Dutch Foreign Service for almost seven years. But three years ago, I quit my job to pursue my dream and that was to become a life coach. And now I help other
ambitious expats and global players to get them know themselves on a deeper level so that they can really create a life that they feel truly happy and fulfilled in.
Mickelle (00:58) It’s amazing. I want to get really into that. First, I want to know what it’s like to be a diplomat. Like, what does that mean? Just briefly.
Amanda Molenaar (01:05) So as
a diplomat, you represent your country and you work for the interests of your country. And that’s super wide. And that can mean anything related to consular stuff or your citizens, economic interests, political interests, security interests, climate interests. And so it really depends on the exact job that you do. And when I was posted in Brazil for three years, I worked mainly on prevention of deforestation and anything related to the Amazon.
So that was very cool. I really enjoyed that. But that is the, sorry.
Mickelle (01:34) Wow. So on
behalf of the Netherlands, you were weighing in about the rainforest, is that right?
Amanda Molenaar (01:42) Correct, yeah, because the Netherlands is quite a big agricultural producer and Brazil’s as well. So we have really strong economic ties and the Netherlands imports a lot from Brazil. And so we would like to have that deforestation free and as sustainable as possible. there are definitely interests there, political interests, but also from our markets and the consumers. So that’s what we did there.
Mickelle (02:06) That’s amazing. I always wanted to be a diplomat. That’s why I’m asking.
Amanda Molenaar (02:09) Yeah. So the job is the one part, but then there’s also a whole other aspect to being a diplomat. And that is also, you have this amazing life with a lot of perks and perks that you can’t get elsewhere. Like if you’re a diplomat, you are working for an organization that basically has a monopoly on those perks, like a diplomatic passport. And you get to meet so many amazing people from, I stayed with an indigenous family in the Amazon for a couple of days.
But I also met with ministers, you know, the next week, for example. So it’s very diverse and it’s a very cool life that you get to live.
Mickelle (02:45) Yeah, nice. And so you did that for some time and it sounds like you gained some wisdom. So tell me, I love how you said that they have a monopoly on those perks and like your passport. So every part of your life is kind of, I think being a diplomat, correct me if I’m wrong, is like being an extreme expat or an extreme international person. Like you’re really there to be in a job.
Amanda Molenaar (02:51) Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly. And you move around all the time. So you know, when you move to another country, it’s only for two, three or four years, or maybe a bit more. So there’s an ending to your posting and you know that before you start. that changes a little bit how you experience the country. But at the same time, it’s maybe not an expat to the fullest because you’re also very present still in your own culture. So at our embassy, half of the people working there were Dutch and the other half were Brazilians.
And so I spoke Dutch every day and Portuguese and English, but I wasn’t really removed from my own country as many other expats experience, I guess.
Mickelle (03:45) Yeah, and you’re always having to, do you feel like when you’re a diplomat, can never, like you’re always representing your country, everywhere you go, even if you’re in the grocery store?
Amanda Molenaar (03:57) A little bit. didn’t feel that much, but because I was also like a junior diplomat, so it didn’t really matter that much, you know, with my ranking. But I was aware of it, especially when I went to things like, I’m representing my country and in the grocery store, like no one knew that I was a Dutch diplomat, but I was a bit careful also when, you know, being on the dating apps, for example.
So, Brasilia is full of diplomats. So, I was a bit careful, like, okay, I don’t want to show right away that I’m here as a diplomat because that might influence how people view me or what they want from me or how I go into the dating aspect. So, you are aware, but for me personally, it wasn’t to the extreme, I guess.
Mickelle (04:37) Yeah. So I can imagine that taught you a lot about yourself or maybe gave you a really good glimpse into how you work or how you like, tell me about that journey a little bit. So your junior diplomat in Brazil most recently, is that where the last place you were posted? So tell me that journey a little bit. the only place. Yeah. So tell me about that journey a little bit.
Amanda Molenaar (04:50) Yeah.
Yeah, the only place.
Yeah.
So I was already, I had already been an expat before. So, and I’ve lived abroad several times. So I spent a year and half traveling in South America. I did an internship for six months in Argentina. I moved to London for my master’s degree and I stayed there to start my career. So I spent two and a half years there and every time in between I moved back to the Netherlands. So I was very used to this, you know, packing up my bags and leaving again and living abroad.
And so when I went to Brazil as a diplomat, actually it was so easy for me because I thought, wow, I get all this help with packing and I don’t need to do anything and they take care of all the paperwork. So for me, it was a big relief also, this moving abroad. And I felt very embedded in the whole system that we had, the support system, but also I go there with a solid job.
I know exactly what they’re expecting from me. So that makes it a bit easier, I would say, than if you are an expat who is joining a partner or who’s starting a whole new job at a whole new company, for example. Nonetheless, I did learn a lot about myself. Of course, when I went to Brazil, I think I was 29 or 28. I’m not sure. And, yeah, it’s like these forming years in your twenties and thirties and a lot happened in Brazil.
in my personal life that really had a profound effect on me. And I had to deal with it by myself. I was there. I was in a relationship with someone who stayed in the Netherlands. So I was building up my whole life by myself. And some things happened like a breakup happened, but a friend of mine also died. I wasn’t super fulfilled in my jobs. All these big personal things that happened while I was abroad. And you…
have to go through it by yourself. And obviously you have your friends there and you have your inner circle back home, but no one fully understands what it’s like. So, going through those things. Yeah, definitely. That was definitely a journey for myself. And before going to Brazil, I also already knew that I wanted to quit my diplomacy job after this posting. And in Brazil, even though I liked the job, I loved the things that I was doing, that particular job.
I still realize, okay, this is not where I want to be. This is not my dream. And so I also had to go through this like, Ooh, I know where I, where else I want to be, but I’m stuck here and how can I still make that happen in the future? So there were a lot, a lot of personal things going on that many experts, I guess, will recognize. And then as you, you have to go through them in a different culture and how you deal with that really, shapes how.
how it’s going for you, guess. yeah, that in itself is always a journey.
Mickelle (07:44) I like how you say that you were going through all these personal things and you were, and these are pivotal things. Like in your twenties, it’s not always happening that a friend passes away or, you you are usually going through breakups and this, but what I like to say is like life doesn’t stop. Life goes on even though you’re abroad and you’re dealing with it in a different, with a different set of stresses.
Amanda Molenaar (08:02) Exactly.
Yes.
Mickelle (08:09) And so, and being isolated often. And so do you think that that is part of when you see your clients that they’ve gone through maybe a few life things, maybe career things, or maybe even just being in the wrong life? Like this is an amazing life, but it’s not my life. That’s a really stressful thing to do when your visa depends on your job. And so is that where you meet people in their journey often?
Amanda Molenaar (08:23) Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yes, very often. Yes. so the, the, people that I coach, they are high achievers. They are smart. They’re used to doing things, solving things, fixing things. They don’t need anyone holding their hands. They just take care of themselves also abroad. However, there comes a point in their life where they feel that it’s just something isn’t right, whether that’s their career or relationships or maybe a personal goal or just a pattern that keeps following them around no matter where they go.
And they start to notice like, okay, this is nagging me more and more and I know I need to fix it, but how I’ve used to deal with these things isn’t working for me this time. And this is the point that they reach out to me. And sometimes this started by bigger things that happened like a breakup or a career change. And sometimes it’s just like a continuance of these small nagging feelings all the time about, something isn’t right here.
And at some point, the pain around it just gets so big that they feel like, OK, I really need to change because if I let this continue, where else will where will I end up in maybe in a place with a burnout or just a lot of frustrations and unhappiness and or exhaustion? And so that’s when they reach out to me. And some of them, like you said, are are not in the right life.
I also coached a diplomat before who had to make a choice about whether she was staying at her post, going to another post or going back. And there were a lot of benefits tied to staying abroad. And it was really good for her career, but something inside of her told her, but I long to be home. And so in our first session, actually, this was her coaching question. What do I choose? in her first session, she knew right away, okay, I’m going home because this is what I really crave. And I’m.
letting go of that part that wants to perform and get the best results and do the best thing for my career. It’s time for my personal life a bit more now. So, and she decided that she was going home to his time and giving up the perks and the career benefits for now.
Mickelle (10:47) And I hear you saying people are at an inflection point. And this is sometimes, I love the difference between like, I’m a really huge fan of like having a therapist or coach in your life, especially if you’re living internationally. But I really have found that there’s maybe a time and a place for each, a coach and for a therapist. And I know they’re not the same. So I would love to hear you maybe.
Amanda Molenaar (11:09) Mm-hmm.
Mickelle (11:15) explain the difference or like how coaching fits into a mental health. We’re really in life planning values, all the things we have to do more often when we live internationally.
Amanda Molenaar (11:21) Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, exactly. as a coach, know, coach is not a medical professional. So that is already a clear distinction. Like if you have real mental health issues that are also recognized by Western medicine, then it’s better to go to your GP or a psychologist or a therapist. But as a coach, you walk along with your coachee. You’re both equal. I do not stand like above someone. I’m not a mentor either.
I’m not a therapist, I really am equal to the other person. And all that I do is I help you find your own answers within yourself. I believe you already have the answers and I’m just here to facilitate finding them. And like you said, there is a time and place for both. I also have my own mental health journey. So when I was younger, had, I think I went to a psychologist twice or three times.
and it was good at the time. It was exactly what I needed, but I think it was my second psychologist after two or three sessions. said, I’m not getting much further with you because you’re verbally so strong and I’m going to send you to one of my colleagues who does a lot more work with the body. And this was really good for me because I can talk about my stuff. I can analyze my stuff like many of my coaches as well, but it wasn’t really helping me any further.
So I knew how my childhood, for example, shaped me as I am today, but it didn’t really help me to process it profoundly. And when I switched to coaching, I had a coach while I was working as a diplomat, because I realized I wasn’t happy in my job. And I also got trained as a coach. And in that process, we got coaching ourselves. And it was the coaching that really helped me make a big change in my life, because it was a different way of working.
And also how I work is really with the body, with emotions, with your intuition, and not just through the mind. And what makes a coach different as well is that we are future oriented and practical. So I personally like to dig in childhood stuff and to really see how did you become this way that you are so that you can understand yourself. But then when we have those insights, I want you to use them.
in the here and now and for the future. So how can we translate them to concrete actionable steps? And I think this is what sets a coach aside as well. Plus therapy can be open-ended and coaching usually is within a specific timeframe. So you know beforehand how many sessions you’ll have and maybe you’ll need more and that’s fine. But it’s not as open-ended and that you just go there every week to talk about things.
It also has a clear goal that you are working on.
Mickelle (14:10) Yeah, nice. And so I think when I think about using these two things, it’s like getting to know yourself. A lot of self-knowledge is helpful. But especially when you’re, like you said, verbally strong or high achieving or both, you’ve gone a long way with navigating with your brain and with your words. And so at a certain point, especially if you’re not feeling fulfilled or your relationships are breaking down,
Amanda Molenaar (14:26) Yeah.
Mickelle (14:38) You need new tools, literally. Like that, and that’s what you’re describing. You can’t talk your way out of some things and you can’t unfeel your way. But that’s a really, I don’t think we talk enough about how that’s how our world is structured, especially for highly, like if people are very successful. The world has been telling them they’re great since probably they were in elementary school or basis’s school. And so,
Amanda Molenaar (15:00) Yeah.
Mickelle (15:04) this isn’t new information that maybe they’re not using all of the resources available to them. I can imagine that’s kind of tricky for some people who are used to being the smartest person in the room or having their facilities about them. How does that process look? Because I can tell you would kind of enjoy it.
Amanda Molenaar (15:15) Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah. so, usually when they come to me, they already realize, okay, something is off and they can’t figure it out with their brain. So that’s when they reach out and there are already effects on them. So they’re sleeping a little bit worse or they just, they’re all the time in their head overthinking everything. They spend a lot of mental energy on stuff. they get maybe a bit snappy with their partner or they, they are more frustrated. Yeah.
Mickelle (15:46) a lot snappy. Let’s be honest, a lot snappy. you’re
living abroad and you’re having these realizations, it might be a lot snappy.
Amanda Molenaar (15:53) Yeah, exactly. Maybe you really don’t feel fulfilled in your career anymore. Or right now I have a coachee and she was, she is so career driven and she’s very good at what she does, but she realized, I’m mid thirties. I want to start a family and why isn’t this working out for me? And because she is dealing with those questions inside, she now, she kind of stopped caring about her job as well. And that’s when she realized, wow, I don’t know myself anymore.
So there are already effects going on in their body, in their life, that they can’t really place with their logical brain. So it’s already there. And when they reach out to me, they’re usually quite open to how I work and also I explain how I work. But what we do is that I like to do an exercise every session that is not just talking. So I’ve been trained in systemic work, for example, bit of voice dialogue, all these coaching methods.
But you can do really cool exercises with these methods that allow you to, well, want to think differently, but mostly to get out of your brain. And so that you can see things from a different perspective. So I might ask you to stand somewhere in a room on a piece of paper that represents your partner or your career. And there are other papers in the room where you can also stand on. So then we’re doing a constellation.
And as you stand on things, I will guide you like, what are you feeling in your body right now? What comes up for you? What is the move that you want to make? And I’ve had sessions where we spoke for maybe 30 minutes about a topic and it was interesting, good analysis. And then I did a consolation and within five minutes they were crying and they were like, wow, now I see it so visibly. Something that they couldn’t place their finger on becomes very visible. So that is one way. Yes, me too.
Mickelle (17:39) constellation workers. I love it so much. It’s so
powerful.
Amanda Molenaar (17:42) Yeah, it’s super powerful, but also just making a lot of space for emotions in our session. So, I often have that at some point people talk and a tear comes up and they, they let it go on for 10 minutes, 10 seconds. And then like, okay, so, and then they just go back to their story, to their narrative. And I’m like, hold on, what is happening here? Let’s rewind. Let’s go back to that moment. Where do you feel that in your body? So I really helped them to learn to feel, to use these signals that they’re getting and to not just.
see it as annoying things that are obstacles to their thinking or to their doing, slowing them down.
Mickelle (18:19) Yeah, or I mean,
we all know that emotions are bad at work and to success, right? Until they’re actually necessary.
Amanda Molenaar (18:25) Yeah.
Yes, exactly. And there are such useful resources of information, because if your body, like if you notice that your jaws clench all the time, or you have some days with that, or you feel a knot in your stomach or something else, like that’s your body trying to tell you something. And your body often already knows what the mind is not yet willing to accept. So if you can tune in more to your body, you can just make much better, more aligned choices going forward. It’s really…
powerful information.
Mickelle (19:01) I’ve heard it said before, first of all, that’s so gorgeous and I love it actually because your mind usually is last to the party. And this is something I’ve learned in my own life is your brain is the last thing to process. And once you look back, you’re like, my body was screaming at me. And sometimes that’s where, you know, in some practices we see health problems spring up or not always, they can’t always be traced to that, but or like you said, jaw tension, not sleeping.
What I’ve also heard people say that most of your intelligence lives, most of your actual intelligence about how to make good decisions, about what you’re experiencing, about what’s true. It’s like 90 % in your body, 10 % in your head. Do you see that as well? Like you’re getting so much information, so much good information from your body.
Amanda Molenaar (19:43) Mm. Yeah.
Yeah, often what happens is that we think our mind is making the decision, but often, like you said, we kind of already chosen what we want, but then we need to find the arguments for this decision. So that’s when the mind comes in, right? To justify why we make that decision. And that is something that I see a lot too in my practice that people want to justify a lot because somehow they’re so used to justifying things or to making logical cases for their choice or their decision.
Mickelle (20:20) like a litigator.
Amanda Molenaar (20:21) Yeah. And I always have to pause them there. Like you don’t have to convince me. I’m just, I’m on your side already. but where’s this tendency coming from? And can you learn to not do it so that you can really feel that you can be your authentic self, no matter what something else might think of it. And that’s really scary to a lot of people.
Mickelle (20:40) Yeah, well, I think just crying in a session is really scary to some people. But what does it unlock when you start to access the wisdom in your body, especially if you’ve never done it before and you’ve gotten pretty far in life without having to do that? At least for me, I felt like it was a major inconvenience and made me look weak and invalidated any professionalism I had.
Amanda Molenaar (20:44) Yes. Yeah. A lot of people feel that way. Yeah.
Yeah.
Mickelle (21:04) What unlocks for people when they actually begin to access the wisdom of their body?
Amanda Molenaar (21:09) Yeah. Well, generally I’d say it unlocks a feeling of deep inner trust that you can just really, you come closer to yourself. people feel lighter because they don’t have to fight that all the time, that emotional weight that is there nonetheless, even though you pretend it’s not there subconsciously, you’re fighting against it. And maybe I can show it also with a personal example from my own life, because I thought I was always good at processing my emotions. You know, I
cry for 10 minutes and then I would call a friend and put the emotional weight elsewhere. And then I was done with it. And when I moved back to the Netherlands after Brazil, I was here for two weeks in my new house that I just bought. started my new posting at the ministry and very unexpectedly my dad died. And this was also during a lockdown and I fell in love and my heart got broken. So in a space of two months,
Mickelle (22:01) well.
Amanda Molenaar (22:04) There was so much stuff going on, so much newness, so many big changes, so much grief, and I couldn’t go anywhere. So my usual coping mechanism was to book a flight when bad things happened. But because of the lockdown, I couldn’t go anywhere. And I sat so many times in my hot bath, just crying and crying because I had nothing else to do. And this time, whereas before I would just kind of push my emotions away, I was really…
The pain was too big for me to push it away and I couldn’t go anywhere. So I really opened space for many emotions that I was still having from my childhood. I grew up in a, it was a bit of a traumatic childhood, but I, and rationally I could understand, you know, everything that happened there, but emotionally and physically I hadn’t processed it well yet. So in that perfect storm, as I like to call it, I had no other choice than to go through it. And after that,
That period was incredibly painful. Like it was really painful, but now I’m on the other side and I just feel so much lighter. feel so much. can be more my authentic self, no matter what’s going on for me. know I can rely on myself. It doesn’t matter what’s going to happen because I’ve been through the worst already, how it felt. And, to give another practical example of this or concrete example, I used to deal, I used to have a lot of fear of abandonment and in my relationships, whenever.
I perceived that someone was maybe doubting or leaving, I was so stuck in that trigger and I would respond automatically with clinging and holding on and fixing it. After I processed all the emotions during the pandemic, I really also processed the emotion of my mom leaving when I was younger and I could really make space for that young child that felt so abandoned.
And so now when sometimes a fear of abandonment still comes up, I can recognize it right away. It feels like panic in my throat and I can just be like, it’s okay. This is an echo from the past. And I’m not responding to that trigger anymore in the way that I used to do. And I can really take care of myself instead of finding the solution in action, in doing, in fixing things. And I think so many of us.
Mickelle (24:16) or
responding to that in an unhealthy way that perpetuates bad patterns.
Amanda Molenaar (24:21) Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly. And so many of us are stuck in that and they, we respond to our triggers because we’re not fully aware of them. So we can’t zoom out yet. We’re really in them. And I think when, once you can process emotions, either that are going on in the here and now, but also from the past, you get such more self-awareness that you can really say, see, this is what’s going on. It has nothing to do with the here and now. It’s an echo from the past. Let me make space for this emotionally.
And then the need to fix it also becomes less, at least in my case it was.
Mickelle (24:55) Yeah. So it occurs to me that it’s a part of a process of growing up is how I would put it a little bit is self-knowledge, self-healing, being there for yourself. And it happens usually. Unfortunately, we don’t do it. There’s a proactive way to do this. And then there’s the way that life.
Amanda Molenaar (25:13) Mm-hmm.
Mickelle (25:16) brings you to a death portal, is what I call it, like a death portal. Not just if someone dies, but like an ending of a relationship or the ending of an era in a place that you really love living. And so I see it as kind of the process of growing up, growing yourself up. But we avoid it at all costs, like all of us do. It’s never fun. And so how can we maybe conceptualize this? Is it like a workout? Is it like building your
Amanda Molenaar (25:22) Yeah.
Yeah.
Mickelle (25:43) like your psyche, like your body, making it more healthy, making it more able, making it more nimble, making it more satisfying. Is that a good way? Because when I started work on myself, I can tell you, and I still, I’m like, I don’t want to do that. But I, yeah, I don’t know, I’ll go to the gym later. And so I intentionally try my best to put myself.
Amanda Molenaar (26:02) Yeah, I still have this too.
Yeah.
Mickelle (26:13) with people or coaches or therapists that I can proactively go through these. I look at them as growing up, growing into who I want to become. But how do you talk people into this? Or is it usually that they’re being forced to go through something really painful? Is it usually that first one?
Amanda Molenaar (26:30) Yeah, it’s usually
that they’re forced to do it, or at least that the pain in their life around this particular topic has got so big that they reach out to me and then in the coaching, we make space for it. But a lot of people find it difficult to really do it also in their daily life or by themselves because for 30, 40 years, they haven’t done it enough. And so to make a change, yes, exactly.
Mickelle (26:54) and it’s been working really well usually. Like it’s like, yeah, no, I am
expert at being this version of myself and it has worked. I don’t know why it hasn’t worked. And a lot of people will like go through divorcing their partner, moving country, do do do, before they change themselves. And that, like you said, you booked a ticket every time. I love that. That makes me more mindfully.
Amanda Molenaar (26:59) Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, I still do that sometimes, but at least I’m aware of it now.
Absolutely. lot of people, you know, it’s so much easier when stuff happens to our focus is on the outer world. And so our focus naturally is to find a solution there. And it’s easier to point it, you know, someone or something else as the source of it or as a solution of it.
But really, we have to start from the inside out. I really believe that. it’s painful process. Like you said, it’s not fun. And I was forced to do it. think many people in the pandemic were forced to do this as well. Divorces are a good way, I guess, to start doing it. But many people just, it’s sometimes easier, at least in the short term often, it’s always easier to pretend…
Mickelle (27:42) No shame, we all do it, but.
Amanda Molenaar (28:03) it, nothing is going on, or it’s just this one thing that they need to go through. Or this one phase or this one topic. Whereas if they are really honest with themselves, they’re often repeating patterns and they also have a responsibility in this whole process, even if the other person was maybe more to blame. so yeah, it’s definitely not easy to start this journey. I think either you have this event that forces you. but another good thing I think.
It would be beneficial for a lot of people. And again, myself included is to make it almost like a daily practice so that you have your daily workout. Like you go to the gym. I’m a very high speed person. I’m very ambitious. I go through life fast and I do a lot. And if I’m not careful, I forget to feel because in that high speed, it’s really hard to feel. And if your mind is focused on other things all the time, it’s also really hard to feel. And this is especially a trap for expats because when you live abroad,
You only have to say yes or no to things. You, there’s so much newness coming at you or so much excitement that you only have to respond to life. And so it becomes very easy to just lay back and, and, know, let life happen to you. And you want to stay proactive in this. And, so I also have to remind myself of it. Hey, Amanda, slow down, feel.
So I have some like rituals sometimes or practices, like just checking in with my body, just, some meditation, future self visualization, just some things to really keep me here within myself. Right now I just came back from a trip. I have a friend from the States staying over with me for a week. When she leaves, I’m also flying out to another country. And as I was doing my daily check-in this morning, I realized like, it was much harder for me than usual.
And even though I feel good during that check-in, I realized I’m not completely present within myself and I need to return inwards first so I can really be my best self here and be present with everything that I need instead of automatically having all my attention in what’s going on in my life right now. So yeah.
Mickelle (30:07) It’s a survival
adaptation to not be in your feelings. again, it gets you really far. And also, sometimes you can talk yourself into it being necessary. Like, I’m going to get deported if I don’t do this checklist. There’s so many extra tasks and extra excitement and extra things to focus on as an international person. Even adults that aren’t internationals have this.
Amanda Molenaar (30:12) Absolutely.
Yeah.
Mickelle (30:35) It’s so easy to justify not being in your body. And I really think that it changes our life and it changes the cities we’re in and it changes how we’re interacting with everything. And so I really think the work that you do on yourself affects the whole world, honestly. So that’s, it’s important work. Tell me what happens or if anything happens. What I’ve seen is that sometimes if you’re in a partnership,
Amanda Molenaar (30:48) Absolutely.
Yeah.
Mickelle (31:05) one partner will start working on themselves and then the other one. How have you helped your clients navigate that? Or maybe they’re in a relationship and ends because they realize they haven’t been in their body, they haven’t been listening.
Amanda Molenaar (31:16) Yeah.
It doesn’t come up a lot, if I’m honest, somehow. I don’t know why, but all my coaches are usually just really focused on themselves and the relationships are pretty good. But there are, there have been a few times where some people realized, okay, actually I want a divorce. I’ve been one, I’ve, I’ve been knowing this actually for an entire year, but then through the coaching, they really also got their confirmation from their body and everything else that they really went ahead with it.
usually, maybe it’s because they’re so independent, my coaches that they feel like I’ve been with my partner for so long and I’m working on my issues now. And as long as you know, my partner is fine with it and things stayed away that they are, they are also okay with it. And then sometimes, yeah, a big change happens. But I also noticed from a personal point of view, when it comes to dating and finding someone.
I’ve lived abroad so many times and I’ve been through some major life changes with both my parents passing away. And then also in this personal development journey that sometimes it’s hard for me to level with people of my age that haven’t had all those things and haven’t lived abroad. And so you get extra experience, I think, as an expat. And also if you start your personal growth journey that can, yeah, it can really create a new path for yourself. And not everyone is walking along with you on that path. And it might be.
difficult and it might feel a bit lonely too. Yeah, absolutely.
Mickelle (32:42) first.
Yeah, especially at first. it doesn’t mean you’re going to lose all your friends or something. But once you start, if you have ignored your body your entire life and have done a really good job of that and it’s gotten you far, it is a new and it usually only brings good things. Like you really are more aligned. But it is there’s an adjustment period. Do you maybe warn people about that? Like maybe these next few months might you might be making some adjustments.
Amanda Molenaar (32:45) Yeah.
No.
Mm-hmm.
Mickelle (33:13) noticing things, do you have wisdom around that? Like maybe don’t make final decisions before you sleep on it or something like this.
Amanda Molenaar (33:16) Yeah.
Yeah.
So I like to always use this metaphor, like where you are walking somewhere and there is a certain gap. I don’t know how to call it, but you. Yeah. But something that you can actually jump over to if you want to. So it’s not that big, but what most people do when they reach out to a coach is like, okay, I’m here and I want to jump to the other side. How do I get there? But what they really need to learn.
Mickelle (33:30) like a ravine or something.
Amanda Molenaar (33:47) And that is the whole journey is that they have to walk down to the lowest point and then make their way up again. Because that’s really when you learn how to change things or when you have changed yourself. If you just learn the skill to jump over this gap or ravine or whatever, you’re not, you’ve not really changed enough or in a lasting way. So it’s really, it’s painful, but you got to go down first to then go up again and really unpack everything that you’ve brought along.
And that can be super painful. Yeah, it can be really painful because if you had done such a good job at running away from your feelings, there’s usually a lot to unpack and even the smallest thing or unpacking can already trigger a lot. Yeah.
Mickelle (34:29) Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it feels overwhelming. That’s the thing. I think that having this time period with you where you have a goal is really makes it more, it’s not, and again, like I think there’s a place for both therapeutic and coaching, but with therapy, it sometimes feels like you can unpack forever, right? And that’s true, like that’s true and may be needed, but with coaching, it feels like you really are recognizing.
Amanda Molenaar (34:50) Yeah. Yeah.
Mickelle (34:58) what you do know about yourself and then having a time period where you can go down and then come back up. And maybe you don’t go all the way to the bottom this time. Maybe you’re not going to your, but you go as deep as you can in the time you can and it brings meaningful change. And then you have that skill. So what would you say? So, but the warning I would have for people is like, you’re gonna go down in the ravine. Some people are gonna keep jumping over. Some people are going to be doing this. You might.
Amanda Molenaar (35:03) Yeah, exactly.
Absolutely.
Mickelle (35:25) find them in a different part of the journey. But while you’re down there, people don’t for the three weeks or whatever they’re working with you or three months, which is a good question we should ask about you. But that has to be, that is a part of the process and a part that is maybe a little bit hard.
Amanda Molenaar (35:36) Yeah.
Yeah, it is. Yeah. And it’s usually in the first couple of sessions where we go down, down, down. And then the last couple of sessions are up, up, up. That’s usually how it goes. And that’s quite nice. And so we, do the hard work in the beginning. And then later we, see, okay, now that we know this, how can we make this change? And I always give them some homework to do. So.
Mickelle (35:53) Yeah.
Amanda Molenaar (36:06) homework in certain exercises or establishing a daily practice, but also having that difficult conversation with your mother about something or with your wife. And they wouldn’t do it on their own. So sometimes I also act as an accountability partner because, you know, those sessions are great that we have and you’ll find many insights, but the real work gets to be done in daily life in between sessions when I’m not there to hold your hands.
Mickelle (36:28) Yep. Yep.
Amanda Molenaar (36:30) So,
I also offer WhatsApp support in between sessions to really be there for like a win or a question or a struggle. And I give them little things to do, a homework exercises so that they continue their process also in between the sessions, because it’s so easy for them to be like, life is taking over. My job is taking over again. I’ve been so busy. so yeah, survival. Yeah. And fair enough. Like I sometimes coach managing directors, like they have a really busy schedule. They travel a lot.
Mickelle (36:51) Survival, survival, yep.
Amanda Molenaar (37:00) But yeah, I’m also there a little bit as an accountability partner for the in-between parts.
Mickelle (37:06) which is really, really good because especially if you’ve never made space for this kind of awareness in your life, you actually have to make, it’s like getting a new gym. It’s like getting a new, I keep going back to gym, but it’s like, you really do have to be ready to make it a bit of a priority for the time that they’re working with you.
Amanda Molenaar (37:21) Exactly. Yeah. And not everyone needs to go deep. Some people, they’re just looking for a sparring partner with less of a concrete goal. but they just want to have that booked in the, in the, in the calendar. I’ve worked with a coach, a coachee who has extended, after my coaching package, I offer like a frequent flyer pass where we have a session once a month, no matter what’s going on, just to keep that in the calendar and to stay committed to it. and sometimes it does. Yeah.
Mickelle (37:46) So why
don’t you go over, like in this last bit, let’s go over how you work. I would love for people to get an idea of like the packages you offer and then your way of working, what they can expect if they reach out to you.
Amanda Molenaar (37:53) Sure.
Yeah, sure.
So I offered a coaching journey and that is a four month coaching package where we will have six sessions. So we meet every two to three weeks. We have a coaching question that you have defined. That’s what we’re going to work on. However, I like to make detours. I like to make space for anything that’s going on in your life. I will try to stir it always to the coaching question. But if your coaching question is around your career, but your relationships is on the rocks.
And that is what’s going on for you. That’s what’s present. We’ll make space for that. So every session I will ask you, Hey, what do you want to bring in? Because we’re both responsible for the direction of our coaching journey. It’s not just me leading the way. And I will always have an exercise ready or prepared or thought of, but I always personalize all my sessions to whomever and whatever I have in front of me. So to the person, some like to go deep and emotional all the time. Others are a bit more reserved. I, I meet them where they are.
But also what is going on for you at that moment? Sometimes they’re so distracted and there’s so much stuff going on that the first thing that we do is a body check-in with a visualization. Okay, let’s ground ourselves first. So it’s always personal and I always try to meet you where you are. That’s a really important thing for me.
Mickelle (39:13) to some clients are they like, meet me where I am, but push or don’t.
Amanda Molenaar (39:17) Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I will, I will always push. I will. And if I see, you know, I had a coachee every time he brings in, it’s a really successful managing director. And every time he brings in a certain topic that he wants to work on, then I, I challenge him a little bit and we, do something around it. And then he starts saying, but actually it’s not all that bad. Or I have been trying that or, and there this happened a couple of times. And I just said, I feel like I’m talking to a teenager.
the energy of this and he was like, well, you’re right. I feel a bit rebellious. And so then we got a much more meaningful conversation about, yeah, more inner parts of him that are conflicting with each other. So that was really interesting too. even though
Mickelle (39:57) Yeah, and maybe causing,
and maybe causing, he didn’t have awareness around, but then we’re causing other problems, yeah. So that’s good. So you’re feeling into what they’re, yeah, that’s nice. yeah, yeah, so every, so it’s about four months, like that’s your standard, and then after that you can, you have your frequent flyer sessions that you can, and then in between WhatsApp support if you have something big that happens. And who loves working with you?
Amanda Molenaar (40:02) Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
I read between the lines, yeah.
Yeah.
Mickelle (40:26) Who do you love working with?
Amanda Molenaar (40:29) Nice question. These are really the high achievers that have this great international life that looks great on paper, but where they don’t feel fully fulfilled in. and these are people that know how to take care of themselves. They don’t need anyone holding their hand, but they’ve come to the realization, okay, something needs to change and I can’t do it on my own. need a bit of guidance. age doesn’t matter. I’ve coached people from 25 till 64, nationality and gender also doesn’t matter. It’s really about who you are. this.
this independent, intelligent, high achiever that knows how to get things done, but is now open to seeing new perspectives.
Mickelle (41:06) learning more about themselves, self-discovery. We always say peregrines are the fastest animal on the planet. They go where suits them best, and they are very independent that way. And so that sounds like your clients, to be honest. But then it’s like, no, no, now you need to learn. It’s almost like learning about
Amanda Molenaar (41:08) Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Mickelle (41:31) your limitations gives you more options, gives you more satisfaction in your life, learning more about what’s driving you that maybe you don’t know. It usually leads to more success in your career as well, I would say.
Amanda Molenaar (41:40) Exactly.
Absolutely, because you can be more yourself, authentic self. So you feel more trust and confidence coming from the inside. And that I think it works great in your career, because if you are in your career with a mask on all the time, it’s exhausting. And if you can be your confident self, you know, that brings success anywhere you go, really.
Mickelle (41:57) exhausting.
And I think in my journey, I’ve noticed that that draining of life force energy is something we accept in our cultures. Like, you’re in your mid-career, you’re feeling tired, you have a lot of responsibility. This is normal. And I completely disagree with that. I reject that notion outright. And it’s been part of my life’s journey to find out if that’s true. And if it is, great, I guess. But I just fully reject that that is.
Amanda Molenaar (42:08) Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mickelle (42:31) something we have to accept, especially as internationals.
Amanda Molenaar (42:33) Yeah.
I agree. think there’s so much in our society that we learn to accept, which we shouldn’t. For example, that this over-reliance on the brain and logical thinking and success. And if you’re always tired or stressed out or worn out or we just, yeah, it’s, or not fulfilled in your job. A lot of people say, but that’s just how it is. No, it doesn’t have to be that way. You can be really happy if you want to.
Mickelle (43:01) Yeah. And again, going back to this life force energy, that’s how I frame it for myself. It’s like something’s off if you feel tired and stressed out all the time. And that might lead to big life changes that you don’t, maybe you’re scared of. Maybe that’s why you don’t want to look at it. But don’t go around thinking this is the way you need to live. It’s what I would challenge our listeners to maybe question. So I have three kids. I have a startup.
Amanda Molenaar (43:10) Yeah.
Exactly.
Mickelle (43:30) I live abroad, you know, I’m a woman, I have a lot going on and I still give myself the privilege, I guess, of thinking I don’t need to be tired all the time. I don’t need to be stressed out all the time. And anything, any day I feel like that, I always think I need to cut something out. I need to change something. And yeah.
Amanda Molenaar (43:40) Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. And it’s,
hard to recognize that if you’ve always lived life that way, your entire life, if that has become a coping mechanism to stress out or just to be so busy all the time or not sleep well. And I can speak from that experience too. And it doesn’t have to be that way. And I also, whenever I’m in that high speed, I have to remind myself, no, Amanda, being stressed and tired is not, you know, that’s just your natural response to things.
but it’s not how it should be. And I know it can be different as well.
Mickelle (44:15) That’s it.
Yeah. And I think we’re all, mean, to be honest, there’s no blame or shame because really that’s what success looks like in a lot of cultures, especially North American, European. mean, European, we always like to say, maybe this is a good question to end on. As an American person living in Europe, I always get this question like, you have such an easy life. And I’m always trying to balance my like American, like success looks like.
Amanda Molenaar (44:28) Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mickelle (44:50) driving
yourself into the ground, no vacations, don’t be a wimp. And the European lifestyle where you don’t talk about work and you don’t talk about. So tell me how that works for your clients who are European, who are maybe embracing, because there’s like this, it’s not a myth, but it is a notion that Europe has better balance. How do you see that as you’re from the Netherlands, but you’re high achieving?
Amanda Molenaar (44:57) Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mickelle (45:19) So how does that balance as a European?
Amanda Molenaar (45:21) good question. So I guess for my, most of my coaches, I think they’re more driven by their internal drivers to perform and achieve so much more than their environment. Although I can imagine if they, have European coaches living in Europe, but also if they were to live in the U S it would be amplified a bit more. and yeah, I think it’s. Yeah.
Mickelle (45:44) So this is how they’re made.
Amanda Molenaar (45:46) Yeah, exactly. I think that’s the case. And your environment definitely has an impact because I like the balance, but I don’t like the fact that we don’t talk about work because I love my work and I want to talk about it more. And I have high ambitions and I miss that here in Europe sometimes. And I find that in the U S so your environment definitely has an impact on how you feel and it can amplify or weaken certain parts of yourself. And if you know, you need something.
more or less off, then make sure you put in the right things in your environment to bring out the best in you. That will be my advice.
Mickelle (46:19) And self-knowledge is actually key. Because that internal driver sometimes has things that you do not know it’s going for.
Amanda Molenaar (46:22) Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Mickelle (46:32) Very cool. Well, I really want people to reach out to you. I really think it’s a valuable resource for people to have a coach even if they aren’t experiencing some major crisis in their life to be proactive about the fact that in International life you do face more what I like to call death portals, even though it doesn’t always have to do with death We have way more opportunities to face ourselves if we take them as international people And I think that leads to insane levels of personal growth and so
Amanda Molenaar (46:43) Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Mickelle (47:01) What I love people to know is this is whether or not you’ve signed up for it, you’re faced with these things more, and there are resources and people who are out there. You’re one of them. And so if people want to reach out to you to explore coaching, how would they go about that?
Amanda Molenaar (47:17) Yeah. Well, you can find all the information about my one-on-one coaching journey, but also some group programs that I offer on my website, amendamaximecoaching.com. And if you are interested in the one-on-one coaching journey, you can book a free discovery call with me where we can talk about your situation and see if you and I are a match.
Mickelle (47:35) Yeah, nice. Nice. And we’ll put that information in the show notes below. I am so happy to talk to you and I love everything you’re bringing into the world. I love the perspectives you brought today. So I’m so happy you came on. I hope people will reach out to you or other people because we actually can’t do all we have to do is internationals alone. I really believe in a team of people around you to help you improve, but also get more in touch with
I think it changes the world, the place you’re living, your family, your partnerships, your work to do this kind of self-knowledge journey. And so I’m really happy to bring everyone this conversation today. So thanks for sharing your wisdom. Yeah, everyone reach out to Amanda. And thank you so much for joining us today on the House of Peregrine podcast.
Amanda Molenaar (48:26) Thank you for this invitation.