[00:00:00] Mickelle: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the House of Peregrine podcast. Today, I’m excited to welcome on Jordan from JeDutchy. Jordan Guerrero, known online as JeDutchy, is a certified Dutch language teacher and entrepreneur based in the Netherlands. She helps learners worldwide master Dutch through interactive courses, personalized resources, and an engaging online presence.
[00:00:22] Mickelle: Welcome, welcome, Jordan. Can you please start by telling us just a little bit about yourself and what JeDutchy is up to?
[00:00:31] Jordan: Yeah, sure. Well, thank you for having me here. So, yeah, what What I’m doing and what JeDutchy is up to. Well, we’re at the start of some really exciting times. Me and my husband, like, personally and also with the business because of course, yeah, I’m a business owner and then your life and your business is kind of.
[00:00:54] Mickelle: But before we get into that, which I really want to tell us how you grew up, tell us where you grew up.
[00:01:00] Jordan: Yeah, sure. Okay. So I grew up in a small city in the neighborhood of Rotterdam and yeah, I’ve lived there The largest part of my life for sure but I always really love to travel. When I was a student I always had like three side jobs so that I could save up, so that in the summer I could just go to at least three places.
[00:01:21] Jordan: And I also did my exchange half year near Erasmus in Switzerland, which was amazing. And yeah, right before Corona, I traveled so much. I traveled like Yeah, at least five countries per year. My most exciting year was like 12 or so in a year. And
[00:01:39] Mickelle: so when you were growing up, there had to be a moment, so you’re growing up in, in out just outside Rotterdam, you said, right?
[00:01:45] Mickelle: When you live in the Netherlands, I think you’re the one that said this, languages just kind of happened to you.
[00:01:51] Was that you
[00:01:51] Mickelle: that said that?
[00:01:52] Yeah. So
[00:01:54] Mickelle: what is your language story?
[00:01:57] Jordan: Well, my language story, I mean, English, you just kind of. Pick up. It just happens to you because, well, your parents turn on the TV and you go to the cinema and then, you know, you can’t read.
[00:02:11] Jordan: Fast enough to, to catch up with the Dutch subtitles. So then you just start listening like when you’re really young and English just happens to you, that it just happens to you. And then French and German, you get that in in high school. And if you do anything with it, I mean, high school language is of course, it’s something else.
[00:02:28] Jordan: You can’t speak even after five years, but if you do anything with it, then you have another one or two. I’m sure it works like that for everybody. You might have a gift, do you think? Maybe you have a small gift. I’m not entirely sure about that. I mean, learning languages gets so much easier after your third or fourth language.
[00:02:46] Jordan: It’s almost like learning just an accent. And also, the languages I speak are all European languages. It’s not like I’ve been learning Japanese. That would probably kill me.
[00:02:58] Mickelle: But you said something really, really important in there, which I think is beautiful. Learning after the third language is a little bit like learning an accent, which is, is a really different way of thinking about language learning.
[00:03:10] Mickelle: And I think, I think you do have a gift. I think that’s part of it. I would love for you to tell us, if you can, reflect on Because I see you as this little girl growing up, you, you learn Dutch, you’re, you’re surrounded by languages, but you’re open to them. But was there a moment when you realized, or something in your childhood or with your family that made you realize that languages were important?
[00:03:33] Mickelle: Having more than one language was important or powerful or a word you would use because you have dedicated your life to teaching people Dutch. That’s an incredible calling, if you will. So help us understand this process of becoming a Dutchie.
[00:03:50] Jordan: Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, in Europe, there are languages all around you, different ones.
[00:03:55] Jordan: I think it’s quite different if you’re like from central USA, you, you will only maybe hear Spanish. So here it’s just, there’s so much variety and there’s so much richness and so much culture. So it’s, it’s quite easy to get into contact with people and, and cultures. And also if you just go abroad on any random holiday, I mean, you’re In Europe, you will most likely not go on holiday to your own country.
[00:04:21] Jordan: Some people do. I mean, that’s totally valid. But if you want to go more than two hours away, you will hear a different language all the time. And you want to feel comfortable and competent all the time. So then you just learn a bit and then you learn a bit more and then you learn a bit more. And then, oops.
[00:04:37] Jordan: I love how
[00:04:37] Mickelle: you won’t accept that you might have a gift for language learning. That is very humble of you. Okay, so tell me. So you grew up in Rotterdam. Do you remember the first time you maybe you had a successful exchange with someone in another language? If you don’t, it’s okay. I’m asking you really hard questions.
[00:04:57] Jordan: I’m not sure. I don’t think so. I mean, the first time I really spoke another language, it was in the first grade or something of primary school, like pre primary school. I spoke some English. No, I don’t.
[00:05:13] Mickelle: So you don’t remember like this magic moment or something. Cool. No,
[00:05:15] Jordan: but I do have that with my, my other new languages.
[00:05:19] Jordan: Like a couple of years ago I was in Russia and I had just begun learning Russian and then I ordered a croissant and no one, almost no one speaks English there. And I was so proud of myself in Russia now, obviously. So yeah, it just, those small wins, they’re always great. If people don’t ask you to repeat something, which almost never happens, but still, if that doesn’t happen, it’s like, I.
[00:05:41] Jordan: I said it, they heard me.
[00:05:44] Mickelle: The contact was made, like the communication was made, yeah. I’ve only ever tried to learn Dutch at this level, but it is, yeah, it makes your day, makes or breaks your day when that happens, or it can. So you grew up in Rotterdam, you grew up traveling, learning languages, as you say, it almost happens to you that you’re multilingual.
[00:06:03] Mickelle: Tell us your first time teaching someone, or do you have a moment when you were teaching?
[00:06:09] Jordan: Oh, yeah, well, if we really go all the way back to the beginning, then it would be about my very first boyfriend. I was 16, I guess, and he was from Germany, well, Hungary, Germany, and he didn’t speak a word of English.
[00:06:26] Jordan: And within a year, I taught him to C1 English and, which is, by the way,
[00:06:30] Mickelle: your second language English or is it that would you consider English your second language?
[00:06:35] Jordan: Yeah, I mean, I dream in it sometimes, most of the time nowadays and my relationship is also in English. So I’m just
[00:06:42] Mickelle: going to keep getting you to try and admit that you, cause it is, it’s not been my experience that everyone just picks up these languages from living here.
[00:06:49] Mickelle: So I think you are really special, but so you taught your boyfriend to speak English to a C1 level. Got it. So that when you were about 16, that’s pretty early.
[00:06:58] Jordan: And then I figured out that I. I had a talent for teaching languages, but then specifically figuring out someone’s level because I realized that I had a whole dictionary of all of the words that he knew at which point, and which he could maybe know, and which connections he would make.
[00:07:16] Jordan: Like, I had a whole dictionary of what he knew in English. So I thought, yeah, that’s not normal. I think so with that in the back of my mind, a few years fast forward. I mean, of course I studied biology and it in the meantime, then yeah, it became a language teacher. So
[00:07:36] Mickelle: you went to, you’re formerly trained as a software engineer.
[00:07:42] Mickelle: Is that right? Or do I say that? And biologists and a biologist. And then you thought, why not teach Dutch?
[00:07:49] Jordan: Well, yes, it’s first started as a side job and then yeah, I studied linguistics in Switzerland and then, yeah, just. It expanded and then I started recording some videos of the topics that I thought were really boring for Instagram because I didn’t want to explain it more than once and then that exploded.
[00:08:07] Jordan: That, that’s how my Instagram started. I just didn’t want to explain certain things because I was like, do I really need to do this to all the new people that I am teaching? Nah. So yeah, that got out of hand.
[00:08:20] Mickelle: That got out of hand.
[00:08:21] Jordan: And so is that how your Dutchie started from your Instagram
[00:08:24] Mickelle: account?
[00:08:24] Jordan: Definitely. That’s how it started. And then one of my first and favorite students, Fatima, she, she told me one thing that really confused her so much. And that’s also, yeah, still one of the most difficult things about Dutch. That we have this base word, and then we have all of these components that we could put in front or.
[00:08:44] Jordan: Behind it, and then they have completely different meanings. So I made some nice overviews of that, which no one really had done before. So that was really something that a lot of people valued a lot a lot, and I still have that series going, because it just, there’s enough material to keep it going for four years.
[00:09:04] Mickelle: Wow. Yeah, because what you don’t realize about a language is, and maybe even you said this on your account, is there’s so much that you just do automatically or you pull from the stories or things your grandparents said or something. So you almost take it for granted how complex it could be.
[00:09:21] Jordan: Yeah, I mean, of course, there are always different languages within a language.
[00:09:25] Jordan: There’s the language of the older generation that you know in the back of your mind that you’re not using, the one that you’re referring to, and also the one that helps you learning languages that are close to your native language. That makes it always a lot easier. Then there’s the current language that you are using, and then there’s the language of the people who are younger than you, who are using more slang than you, that you don’t I don’t really know that much.
[00:09:47] Jordan: So yeah, language is always alive, regenerating, just like that.
[00:09:53] Mickelle: Language is always alive. Is that what you said? Yeah. I love that. And languages are always changing, but they also, when you have a language, I, I feel like this is true. I have three kids who are, who speak Dutch since they were little. And I always ask them, I say, when you’re speaking English, you need to have this awareness.
[00:10:13] Mickelle: But when you’re speaking Dutch, I can’t tell you. So a good example is like using swear words that are more offensive maybe to English speakers than Dutch speakers. So I’ve had to teach them like you almost have to embody something different in Dutch than you do in English in some ways. Not crazy, not anything over the top, but just an awareness that you are speaking a different language, but also bringing to life different things.
[00:10:39] Mickelle: Yeah.
[00:10:40] Jordan: Yeah, you’re speaking in a different culture. Yeah. And also swear words. In Dutch, we have so many long words, like from English, so many. And we also borrow the swear words, but in Dutch, they’re so much softer. They feel a lot softer.
[00:10:55] Mickelle: Yeah. They feel. That’s right. They feel. And that’s what we had to talk about with grandparents and stuff when they go back.
[00:11:01] Mickelle: It’s like, yeah, I know no one feels offended by these words, but they are, they feel, and that is really what it comes down to. They feel softer or harder depending on the language you’re speaking. And so that’s really something beautiful, I think. And is that an awareness, an awareness you, I think you bring to your language learning?
[00:11:19] Jordan: Yeah, of course, we always incorporate a lot of culture in a, in the lessons. I can give you a nice example. So for instance, the word zelfbeheersing, zelfbeheersing. It means self control. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. So, zelf, self, obviously. Then, beheersing is control, in a way. So it has the word beheersen, which is to control in it.
[00:11:43] Jordan: And it also has the word here in it. Which you might know, which is lord or sir. Because back in the day, the lords, they ruled all the land. So they were the rulers. So you’re self ruling. That is self control. So in the word self control, there’s the word Lord because you’re reigning yourself. And I think that’s so cool.
[00:12:08] Jordan: And there’s so many words like that. So, so many words that really have some history in there. And I love to make people excited about that.
[00:12:18] Mickelle: And it helps it stick. It helps the word stick into your mind. Those, those visual stories. And also you’re teaching them a little bit of history at the same time, which helps you have a connection to the country you’re in as well, which is nice.
[00:12:31] Mickelle: So when you started your Dutchie with your, with your Instagram account, I love that so much. What has that, what was the next step? What, what, what was the next thing you were asking yourself when you were building this, when you were trying to teach people? Cause you couldn’t keep the catalog in your head for each of your students after a while.
[00:12:48] Mickelle: So. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the philosophy that formed.
[00:12:52] Jordan: Yeah, I just really wanted people to be able to express themselves. Well, I wasn’t really, I’m not super focused on the grammar, but it’s really about speaking about being able to. Yeah, do something yourself. It’s all about storytelling. My story is about Dutch and how you can connect them to your own language because I also try to put those in because, you know, I speak quite some and yeah, just also the stories you are able to actually convey.
[00:13:21] Jordan: That, that’s the most important. So I started with just teaching a tiniest bit of grammar, but mainly speaking. And that’s, yeah, that has now developed into, you know, of course more like solid grammar.
[00:13:35] Mickelle: But I think that’s really something really special you’ve said, because if you can speak, that’s one thing.
[00:13:42] Mickelle: If you can express yourself, that’s quite another.
[00:13:44] If
[00:13:45] Mickelle: you can convey information, that’s one thing, but if you can, again, express yourself is totally different. And so I think there’s a different spirit to that, especially when you’re living in a new country to be able to express yourself is actually more connecting than to be able to just convey information.
[00:14:02] Jordan: Yeah, of course, of course, that’s the, that’s the end goal. It also depends, like, expressing yourself. For some people that is difficult in general, I mean, also in their Yeah, already in their own language. Yeah, it is, it is also beautiful that Such a good point. New language you learn, you, you express yourself in a different way because in, in English, if, if you only speak, well, if you speak one or maybe two or maybe three languages, like your native language, you have all of the social constructs in there, you have a lot of filters on, and a language that you speak a little bit it’s.
[00:14:40] Jordan: Not as well, you have a lot less filter and you will, you go more from the logical way instead of from the yeah, emotional way and the cultural constructs that, you know, in that way, you can also have different personalities a little bit, and you also always connect periods of time, like when you started learning a language, To a specific language, and that’s also how you connect with that language, how you feel about it, if it’s fun or not, that kind of stuff.
[00:15:11] Jordan: How does it make you feel? What kind of role do you take on when you speak that language? And I also think that’s really, really cool.
[00:15:18] Mickelle: Yeah. Yeah. I think that that’s so true. And I think that if you are learning Dutch or any language in order to convey information, it’s a lot harder to learn.
[00:15:30] Yeah.
[00:15:31] Mickelle: Yeah, for sure.
[00:15:32] Mickelle: At least it’s been from my perspective. And I speak Dutch terribly. So do not ask me. Maybe I need to enroll in your classes. But I have taken a lot of classes and the ones that have been more successful for me build on this notion that, that you’re talking about. And we don’t need to call it, it’s intangible, whatever it is, right?
[00:15:48] Mickelle: The spirit of the language, the spirituality behind language learning, and then the fundamentals have to be from there. And so is, how are your classes? Structured, like how do you, tell me the secret sauce or the, not the secrets, but the secret sauce behind JeDutchy.
[00:16:03] Jordan: Sure. So, well, behind JeDutchy or behind like an average lesson, like which one?
[00:16:08] Jordan: Whatever
[00:16:08] Mickelle: you want. Cause, cause I know you’re really proud of what you’ve created and a lot of people are very happy with how you teach them. And so I think that I, I would just love to experience a little bit of the magic of that. If you can tell us a little bit about it.
[00:16:23] Jordan: Sure, so, yeah, I’ve been working on Yodachi for quite some time now, and I am, in the best way possible, kind of an obsessive person, like I really want to work on something and make it perfect and make it more and make it more fun and find out more about it.
[00:16:40] Jordan: Yeah, I always deep dive into a hobby and this has been my biggest hobby, hobby of course. Yeah. Your, your full time hobby? More than full time. Definitely. Definitely more than full time hobby for a couple of years. So yeah, then it really grows with you. So I can tell you a bit about yeah, the structure of a lesson like generally.
[00:17:03] Jordan: So we start off by telling how the last week was, of course, at the lower levels, how the last week was this past tense, it’s still a little bit hard. So. I always help by giving suggestions and corrections in the chat so that people can finish their own sentences and they have some, some feeling of, you know.
[00:17:21] Jordan: Like, I can already say some stuff, even if they wouldn’t really be able
[00:17:26] Mickelle: to. So if they couldn’t find it, you help them find it so they can keep the sentence going. Oh, that’s so nice.
[00:17:33] Jordan: Yeah. I, well, that and estimating someone’s level, those are definitely two talents that I have. Like I kind of am a very good autofill.
[00:17:41] Jordan: I will most likely. Almost always know what you’re about to say next. I’ve trained myself for that. So yeah. So then I type in the chat and I help them. We have some chit chats and I try to always. Yeah, I tried to make people excited about their own week, about their own life, what they did. Like, I listened actively and tried to, if there was nothing excited, exciting about their week, I always tried to find something and find another thing and find another thing and then be like, that wasn’t that bad, was it?
[00:18:14] Jordan: And if there was really, really nothing, then I gently, you know, push my students to plan something fun, at least for this week. So, yeah, I always try to bring some positivity. And that’s just the intro of the class. Then, of course, we have some grammar. We have some grammar is inevitable. Yeah, and then during the grammar, there are always, like, interactive parts.
[00:18:37] Jordan: Usually put in some jokes and some cultural thingies, whatever I might. Find, I always, of course, keep an eye on the time, but there are lots of little parts of my slides, like little words that are actually really interesting that if we have enough time, I will definitely just, you know, bring them into the story with me.
[00:18:56] Jordan: And then after, yeah, the grammar, we usually, well, we practice a little bit, and then we process the information, and then we go to the speaking part, which is usually around 20 minutes of the lesson, for sure, and then they prepare a little bit so that they can get mentally ready, look up some words, look up some phrases maybe, but not too much, because then you’re, they’re making a script that’s That’s not, they need to be preparing for improvisation, not preparing a script.
[00:19:25] Jordan: No, that’s not
[00:19:26] Mickelle: going to work.
[00:19:27] Jordan: And then
[00:19:28] Mickelle: it doesn’t translate very well to real life, having a script.
[00:19:31] Jordan: Exactly. Exactly. And also two students, they both make a script, they, the scripts don’t match. And also if they have a pretty low level, one person makes a script. This person suddenly needs to understand everything and respond.
[00:19:48] Jordan: No, it’s better to, you know, kind of just fuck up a little bit at your own level. Just make a little, yeah, just little responses, little sentences, and then just expand on that. Just mess up together while I’m helping and suggesting and correcting in chat.
[00:20:06] Mickelle: That sounds very organic. It sounds like you’re trying to mimic real life a little bit, even though most of your day if you try and speak Dutch is with.
[00:20:15] Mickelle: Native speakers or people who speak in Dutch all the time, this keeps them talking, which I really like because usually once you’ve reached, at least in my experience, when you’re in a class and you reach your level, you’ll be like, you’ll get halfway through a sentence mess up and then you never get to finish that sentence.
[00:20:30] Mickelle: So your level gets stuck at that
[00:20:33] Jordan: mistake you
[00:20:34] Mickelle: made.
[00:20:36] Jordan: Yeah, it has been scientifically proven that interrupting a student is detrimental to like them. actually improving on that thing. So I never interrupt my students. I always make suggestions and corrections and if they’re like completely done and it’s still relevant, then we can go deep dive on that thingy.
[00:20:53] Jordan: But otherwise I’ll just, if they really do it a lot and they kind of ignore what I’m writing, then I will at some point maybe interrupt them. Yeah.
[00:21:02] Mickelle: Yeah. Because you don’t want people learning horribly wrong. But in my experience, at least my first few years here, I was so afraid to speak because I couldn’t get past those levels, those, that tense or something, and I knew I was doing it wrong.
[00:21:18] Mickelle: And my kids were always making fun of my Dutch. So that was another thing. They’re always making fun of me. It’s their job. They’re, they’re my kids.
[00:21:24] Yeah.
[00:21:26] Mickelle: And they were being taught Dutch as children, right? So they’re really correcting them a lot as we do children to try and get them to learn a language.
[00:21:32] Mickelle: But so they were correcting me that way. And then just being like, mom, you just stop. You’re not good at this. They were little, it’s fine, but I really like this approach to letting people keep going because that’s how, that’s how you get better with people around, around you in any language I think is just to keep going, keep trying because as soon as you, as soon as you establish those relationships in English, it’s really hard to go back.
[00:21:57] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. And I think you said that you were a little bit afraid to, to speak before, right?
[00:22:03] Mickelle: I still am.
[00:22:05] Jordan: Well, I think that has something to do with that you started speaking too late. Like in your course, you probably had some courses and then you had quite some nice vocab. You had some, some little base of grammar and then more and more.
[00:22:18] Jordan: And then you started speaking, that’s too late. You need to start speaking from the start. Otherwise. Well, your understanding and your grammar is here and your speaking is there and it just can’t catch up. You need to be comfortable making lots of mistakes all the time. And that’s the only way to do that is to start while you’re still really bad.
[00:22:39] Mickelle: Yeah. It’s so true. And I think you can tell me what you think. So in this is so specific to Dutch and to Amsterdam, but I moved here eight years ago and people would just automatically switch to English and they would just say, huh. Until you started English, which I actually have seen in your videos, which I love.
[00:22:56] Mickelle: But the other thing I’ve noticed is a change in that since I’ve lived here. Now people will stick with you longer because it’s like there was a collective memo that went out like no one’s going to learn Dutch if you don’t help them.
[00:23:06] Yeah, that’s true.
[00:23:07] Mickelle: So I’ve noticed a big shift actually in the city, that is, if someone does speak Dutch, because in the shops a lot of times they don’t, but out and about people will stick with you a little bit longer.
[00:23:17] Mickelle: Was there a collective menu that was, or a collective message that was sent out that I missed, or is that just my perception?
[00:23:22] Jordan: Well, I must say I have seen some LinkedIn posts about that in the last two years for sure. And my mom also does that with all of her foreign colleagues, like very, very actively.
[00:23:34] Jordan: So I do, I do see that. I do see that. Yeah.
[00:23:38] Mickelle: Yeah. Whereas before it was like let’s just not do this. You’re hurting my, cause it seemed like people were like, you’re hurting my ears. You’re doing this so badly. Let’s just switch to English.
[00:23:46] Jordan: Yeah. Let’s just speed it up. Come on. Yeah.
[00:23:48] Mickelle: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:49] Jordan: Something like that.
[00:23:50] Mickelle: No, I think it’s cool. That is such good advice to just speak. Don’t learn more vocabulary, keep doing that, but speak and speak and speak while you’re bad at it.
[00:24:00] Jordan: And if you can’t, you don’t have the opportunity to speak, just think in Dutch. And I know that sounds like a lot, but just sit on your couch. Be like, hmm, ik heb honger.
[00:24:15] Jordan: Hmm, heb ik eten? Ik ga kijken. So, hmm, I’m hungry. Do I have food? I’m going to take a look. And then you go to your fridge and then you’re like. Is mixed or I don’t know, just there is nothing build, build upon just some little thingies. Have an inner monologue because you can also not mess up your pronunciation when it’s in your head.
[00:24:38] Mickelle: Yeah, that is so true.
[00:24:39] Jordan: You can’t feel embarrassed. You can just be slow and that’s fine. You can be patient with your.
[00:24:45] Mickelle: Yeah. And now my kids will speak Dutch lish with me. So I’ll say the words that I know in Dutch, and then fill them in with English. They can now handle that because they’re older, and it doesn’t hurt their ears anymore.
[00:24:56] But
[00:24:56] Mickelle: if it does, they keep it to themselves. But I do think that, how do you also, I’ve noticed this in classes. Sorry, this is now turned into a quiz, but what I noticed was, I had a lot of vocabulary around kids stuff because I had tiny kids when I moved here. They were very young. So I had a lot of vocabulary around grocery stores, around kids, around school, but most other people had a lot of vocabulary around like business stuff or work or clubs, nightlife.
[00:25:20] Mickelle: So how do you handle that difference in vocabulary if there is one?
[00:25:22] Jordan: I mean, it just complements each other because if some people can speak about some things, I also, I mean, I know the levels very, very well. So whenever someone is talking about some. Subjects, I write the words that the others will most likely not know so that they can all understand everything.
[00:25:39] Jordan: So it really complements other people and in my courses, people also get paired up based on vibe, motivation, interests, other things. And then, yeah, they can learn together. They have two study sessions per week together to also, you know, revise the grammar so that they have an accountability buddy so that they won’t do all the homework the night before because that does not work.
[00:26:01] Mickelle: Okay, I love this. Okay, so it sounds like when I really what I really love is it’s multidimensional. So you’re doing you have It’s online, so you can see words typing, you can speak, and then you can be, have an awareness of people around you. So as opposed to being in a class where there’s more in and out of your ears and some speaking, if you go around the class.
[00:26:18] Mickelle: So how has that progressed? So now you have more teachers, you have a lot more teachers, you’ve trained a lot more teachers.
[00:26:25] Jordan: Yeah, I have two teachers who also teach groups together with me, and then I have a couple more teachers just for speaking hour, because on, right now, only on Wednesdays, but we might expand.
[00:26:35] Jordan: We have speaking hour, so people get specific topics, and then they can prepare a little bit, and then they can have some dialogues, and they get suggestions and corrections in the chat, just to keep on speaking, just to really, really progress in that skill.
[00:26:50] Mickelle: Yeah. And it sounds like this is a format of like online, twice a week, you’re meeting with your accountability buddy, speaking, working on things, you have homework, and this is about eight weeks, I think you said that you’re, you’re together with like a little cohort.
[00:27:04] Mickelle: And so that is a really effective eight weeks if you want to, say, take an exam or something, obviously, your ultimate goal should be able to be able to speak with your neighbors, but is that also. So a goal people can have is to maybe take one of the exams or a few of the exams for residency.
[00:27:22] Jordan: Yeah.
[00:27:22] Jordan: Definitely. So inberching exams are like A2 level for some people and now they’re slowly shifting towards being B1 and people are always asking me, can I pass the exams if I do your course? And I’m like, yes. Through competence. Like, it’s not a course where we will go hand in hand, like, through the practice exams or something.
[00:27:42] Jordan: No, we’re not gonna do that, but you’re going to learn enough that you will definitely pass if you do slightly your best. You show up to lessons and do some stuff, then you will simply pass. I do sometimes give some specific exam kinds of tips, like, Hey, this structure is a little bit harder. This structure has exactly the same meaning if you’re at the exam.
[00:28:03] Jordan: Pick this one, not this one. You’re not getting bonus points for being fancy.
[00:28:08] Mickelle: They just want proficiency. Oh, good. Okay. So in starting Yodachi, I want to hear a little bit more about your personal story. So you, in true Peregrine style, have traveled quite a bit, but also tell me about your time in Sweden and how you’ve kind of structured your, your life as you’ve been building this really beautiful company.
[00:28:26] Jordan: Yeah, sure. So one of my biggest goals in life always has been to be geographically independent and people are always like, Huh? What, what do you mean? What, how is that even a goal? Yeah, so I’ve reached that and I’m so, so, so, so happy about that. That actually happened last year. And yeah, this enables me to be in my house in Sweden, usually the whole summer.
[00:28:50] Jordan: And to spend some time with family in the Netherlands and to just travel around also a bit in other places and yeah, it’s just amazing. And in two
[00:29:00] Mickelle: And I just want to stop you right there really quickly. I really want to do the next part. But when did you start saying that? Because I, in my experience, little girls don’t grow up going, I want to be location independent.
[00:29:11] Mickelle: Always. So there had to be something in you or a moment or did it just develop over time that you just knew you didn’t want to live in one place?
[00:29:19] Jordan: I think it happened when I was about, yeah, 18, 19. I was like, yeah, I want to do something that’s intellectually stimulating something with my brain. I want to do something that I Preferably can help people earn some money like I don’t have to be Yeah, thinking about that all the time being really poor or something and geographically independent for sure and that’s And do you
[00:29:48] Mickelle: think, do you think working in software gave you, I don’t know how long you worked in software, but my partner, my husband is a software engineer as well.
[00:29:55] Mickelle: And we were digital nomads before it was a thing, like in the early two thousands, it changed our mindset completely for his job to be location independent because he was a software engineer. It didn’t matter that much. And so do you think that shaped, at least gave you that option of going, I can work from anywhere?
[00:30:13] Mickelle: I’m coding.
[00:30:14] Jordan: No, no, it was, it was definitely before that because being a geographically independent was, was the goal. And I thought I would really like software engineering. So that’s why I studied that. That was really one of my, actually I was debating between notary law and software engineering and being a notary, you need to be in
[00:30:34] Mickelle: one place.
[00:30:35] Jordan: Yeah. So then it became software engineering and then eventually. didn’t turn out to actually do that for a very long time.
[00:30:44] Mickelle: Yeah, no, no, but I think going through the, going through the training is really, really valuable. Just like any kind of expertise or training, it’s super helpful. Now I think congratulations are in order.
[00:30:54] Mickelle: You told me you just got married last year, right? Yeah. And so while you were living in Sweden, you got your, you have this goal of being location independent. You’re spending summers in Sweden. You got married and something, tell me the story about how your last year has gone.
[00:31:11] Jordan: So much happened. You mean 2024 or 2023?
[00:31:14] Jordan: 2024,
[00:31:14] Mickelle: 2023, because I know you’re on the precipice of a new journey that I want to get to. So tell me, tell me the story as much as you can about this, what led to this new adventure you’re about to set out on.
[00:31:28] Jordan: Well, okay, sure. Wow. Let’s start with December 2023 then. That’s when me and my husband, we got married.
[00:31:36] Jordan: It was beautiful. We had a, oh, the most perfect day in Denmark. It was minus one, sun was shining and minus one with snow. Like, it was Perfection. Beautiful on the pictures too. Like, so, so great. Well, so then we got married. My husband is not from the Netherlands, so when we were married, that also gave him the perk to keep his, his foreign passport while also getting the Dutch one.
[00:32:01] Jordan: So, that was very, very nice bonus. He applied for that, and once he finally got the passport in, October, I guess this year, we were finally enabled to go anywhere to go anywhere and reestablish our lives anywhere. So that that was super, super great. But yeah, the rest of the year 2024, we’ve just been working a lot.
[00:32:26] Jordan: And he also he quit his job, he joins the team. So now we’re working together full time. And huge deal. Working with your spouse is a whole other frontier. So congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you. It was pretty hard at the beginning, but after a little bit of searching yeah, it’s going great. It’s really going great, so I’m really happy about finding that, because when he was working 9 to 5, I just missed him so much.
[00:32:52] Jordan: I just didn’t like it at all that he was just gone the whole day and I was like at home working. And it didn’t feel right. And now we just, we work from early to late, but on a Tuesday afternoon, we can also just have lunch for two hours, which is amazing.
[00:33:10] Mickelle: This is a commercial for working with your spouse.
[00:33:12] Mickelle: If you can work out the other bits. Yeah, it’s, it’s an amazing way to look at it.
[00:33:16] Jordan: It’s also a great way to test your relationship, but it’s not what it’s made of. Yeah, it’s not for the week. It’s, it’s quite something, but yeah, if it works out, it’s Awesome, it’s the best. And yeah, now we have chosen where we’re going to relocate.
[00:33:33] Jordan: We’re still obviously going to continue with Yodachi. We’re definitely not done yet, but we’re just going to take it. with some extra adventure.
[00:33:42] Mickelle: So tell us, so you are, I feel really lucky by the way to be talking to you right before because I think there’s something really magical about what you guys are trying to do and the intentionality you’re putting behind it.
[00:33:55] Mickelle: So tell us what is happening in the next few weeks.
[00:33:58] Jordan: Yeah, so next week, Sunday, we are going to embark on a big journey, but we’re going to move to South America and first we’re going to Madrid for an intensive Spanish course because, well, we will need to be at least, well, I’m already conversational in Spanish, but we need to be able to survive.
[00:34:16] Jordan: So, we’re first going to do that and then after that we’re going to spend about four months per year in South America and the rest of the year, just like anywhere, and the summer is in Sweden, so then we’re, Already, we only have like five months ish left. And then, yeah, Christmas in the Netherlands with family.
[00:34:34] Jordan: And then in the meantime, just some nice travel.
[00:34:37] Mickelle: And I love how you’re talking about this, like, very laid back. But you have an entire calendar you shared with me. And we don’t need to share it with people, but you have very specific plans, which I actually really love. And one of those months, and if you don’t want to talk about this, this is fine, but I think it’s really beautiful.
[00:34:52] Mickelle: You and your husband have decided to spend a month apart traveling.
[00:34:56] Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. In May, the whole month of May, we’re going to do solo travel, and it’s also to, you know, become a little bit more independent, to experience things apart, and then to have new, exciting things to think about, talk about, realign, and to learn from each other, and then to maybe, of course, probably at some point, show each other the places that we’ve been to, because we just want to be again.
[00:35:23] Jordan: That’s great. as strong as possible and interesting as possible for each other and I think this really enables us in this way yeah also there is a little bit of a darker side on the why we’re doing the the solo travel like I feel we really kind of need it as a couple not because we don’t want to be together oh my god I’m going to miss him so much after like The first day, for sure, but yeah, for the last few years, well, yeah, in the last three years, two of them, mostly me, but both of us, we had been really sick, but mostly, mostly me.
[00:36:00] Jordan: And we came a little bit in the, yeah, dynamic of my husband taking care of me and that, that got pretty serious.
[00:36:14] Jordan: I think it’s also great to have some time apart to recalibrate your dynamics so that you can be together in the way you actually want to be together, more intentional in that way. Yeah.
[00:36:27] Mickelle: Thank you for so much for sharing that because not everyone shares this. Sometimes these. deeper, darker, like you said, or maybe more scary parts of going on a journey like this.
[00:36:39] Mickelle: And it can’t always be this laptop on the beach, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, story that we’re sold. And so the sole purpose or this more, like you said, darker, but I think it’s also more honest way of coming about it is really beautiful. And you’ve only been, you’ve been together a little bit shorter of a time, but I can tell you, I’ve been.
[00:36:58] Mickelle: With my partner for almost 23 years and these this type of intentionality is so it will just take you different place And so I’m really really excited to watch your journey unfold in both You can tell people are you are we telling people you’re going to Paraguay, right? Yeah. Yeah Both in Paraguay and then your travels alone, I hope you’re making some sort of little series or something on your on your social so we can follow along, but no one talks about this side of going abroad or why you might be changing country or maybe why you need to be location independent because there’s that there’s that you want to change the dynamic maybe of some codependency or some dynamic that’s come between, not between, but you’ve developed, but also You mentioned that your partner’s not Dutch as well, so you’re in a country that you grew up in and he didn’t.
[00:37:45] Mickelle: And so that can also play, you know, change the way your relationship develops. And so in a way you’re choosing to change where your relationship is developing in this next year.
[00:37:55] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. That’s for sure. In a new country where we know absolutely no one and we are both not native speakers at all. Yeah.
[00:38:06] Jordan: It’s, it’s quite a big step. It’s out of both of our comfort zones. So it’s, it’s exciting where it’s going to take us.
[00:38:15] Mickelle: Yeah. It’s really brave. I really love it. And I hope you’ll keep talking about these sides, even though they’re not shiny, but I really love when people do open up that way because it gives people maybe something to an example or something to talk about with their own partner.
[00:38:30] Mickelle: And, and especially on that side of, if you’re in your native country and your partner’s not from that country, there’s a lot of richness there that doesn’t often get talked about. And then at such a young age, being in the care of your partner. That’s something that often isn’t talked about either.
[00:38:42] Mickelle: It’s usually saved for later in life. And so I think you guys are learning some serious things at such an early stage of your relationship. So thank you so much for sharing that. And I’m super, super happy and proud to be talking to you right at the cusp of this because it’s a very special time. It’s like talking to someone right before they have a baby or something like you’re about to be changed forever.
[00:39:01] Mickelle: I know you’ve traveled a ton and all this stuff, but somehow this feels different. I’m really embarking on something for a lot of really deep and meaningful reasons, I think.
[00:39:12] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I agree. And Yodachi’s,
[00:39:14] Mickelle: yeah, me too. And Yodachi’s going nowhere. So you’re still teaching your lessons. It’s still running while you’re traveling around.
[00:39:21] Mickelle: Because it’s all online, that makes it totally possible, right?
[00:39:24] Jordan: Yeah, and I mean, I can’t, I’m, I would be bored at a vacation, every vacation is a workcation because I just love my job so much. Yeah, so definitely going to keep teaching and keep teaching teachers how to teach and stuff.
[00:39:42] Mickelle: Definitely. Lastly, I wanted to talk to you about some of the work you’re doing with government things.
[00:39:48] Mickelle: You’ve mentioned that you sometimes do these classes to help out immigrants. Is that right? Do you want to talk about that a little bit as we wrap up? You mean refugees? Refugees, yes.
[00:40:00] Jordan: Oh yeah, but I’m not doing that actually with the government. It’s my own initiative.
[00:40:04] Mickelle: Okay, sorry. That’s, that’s fine. I had it all wrong.
[00:40:08] Mickelle: All the words wrong, but I want to hear about, I want to hear, I want to tell people about what you’re up to.
[00:40:12] Jordan: Sure. Sure, sure. Yeah, I. When I train my teachers to get them more acquainted with all of the materials and stuff, they first teach a couple of groups of refugees, because it’s just a win win win situation.
[00:40:26] Jordan: The refugees get a course for free, the teachers they get to teach and get better at teaching. And it’s good for my karma, I guess. Yeah. So I organized those. It takes quite some organization, honestly. It’s, it’s quite a lot of work, but it’s really fun. And I think it’s just a good thing to do and a good way to give back as well.
[00:40:50] Jordan: So, yeah, people book a course with me, like expats. They are also supporting people who really, really need to, really, really needs to integrate better and get a second chance.
[00:41:04] Mickelle: And I can tell you, when I moved here, I, I immediately started identifying, I moved here in the best way possible, and there’s still so many hard things.
[00:41:12] Mickelle: I can imagine, as a refugee, breaks, it breaks my heart on a totally different level now that I’ve moved countries. And so I think that really resonates with me, if I were to do a language course, feeling just like a little bit of that is going to help someone. Makes me feel so happy, like not even for karma, like I just really want to help.
[00:41:29] Mickelle: Because it is, it’s so hard to learn a language and then all the trauma that might come from. Being a refugee, having to flee a country, it’s, it’s pretty amazing.
[00:41:39] Jordan: The, the trauma really persists in the Netherlands because refugees are not treated all that well really in the Netherlands. And I didn’t know until I started this, but yeah, it’s just normal for people to sleep in a room with 20 people for five years and they get like eight euros per week to do everything from get clothes.
[00:42:03] Jordan: I mean, yeah, it’s crazy. You can’t. No, you can’t get a shirt for that sometimes. Eight euros per week. Wow. And then, yeah, sometimes it just, it just makes me emotional when I see them in my class and they, they just can’t have a moment of privacy or, yeah, just, it’s, it’s hard, but I’m happy I can help some people.
[00:42:24] Mickelle: You’re doing something actually really important. So congratulations, and I hope that people who take your courses understand that that part goes in and yeah, if there’s anything else, maybe you can share it with our community that we can do to help, to help. It’s not even to help. I don’t even look at it that way.
[00:42:42] Mickelle: I look at it like, Again, I did it the easy way. Someone else is doing it the hard way. It’s so hard to go to a new country. And so I think most of us who has done it want to pay that forward somehow, because we were all helped at one point or another on this journey. And so, yeah, so keep us updated it and House of Peregrine if we can, if there’s any initiatives that you see, because I think that that’s a beautiful thing you’re doing.
[00:43:04] Mickelle: And I’m really, really proud of you for doing it.
[00:43:07] Jordan: Thank you. Yeah, I think, well, of course you can learn Dutch yourself, but if you’re not really into that, or that is not. really something on your priority list at the moment. There’s also, yeah, we could talk about sponsoring a group of refugees or something.
[00:43:25] Jordan: People can always reach out to me if they have some nice ideas. We can, we can see there are possibilities for sure.
[00:43:32] Mickelle: Sounds good. We’ll stay in touch about it because I really love that. So thanks for telling us about that. There’s like, we have four podcasts in one with you, Jordan. So thanks for going over all of them.
[00:43:40] Yeah.
[00:43:41] Mickelle: So I feel like we have a really good idea of what it’s like to learn from you. And so tell people how to get in contact with you or where they can learn more about you or get in touch.
[00:43:53] Jordan: Yeah, sure. So you can text me on WhatsApp, but that’s probably a little bit harder to find. You can go to JeDutchy
[00:44:00] Jordan: com, there you can contact me or you can just DM me on Instagram. Those are the main ways to reach me. You can also, if you want to know more about me, I also have my own slow Dutch podcast with stories, personal stories, or with fairy tales. You can. Well, that’s
[00:44:16] Mickelle: right. Tell us a little bit about that. Tell us about this, the fairy tales, which I love.
[00:44:19] Mickelle: I’m so glad you brought this up. Tell us. Please.
[00:44:22] Jordan: Yeah, it’s just Dutch at the slow pace, at the low level. So for people who would like to learn in an entirely different way, I always try to add as many different ways of learning as possible so that people can choose. So that they are not just trying to be fit into some mold.
[00:44:39] Jordan: There’s always enough that you can choose your own way of preference. So yeah, Slow Dutch podcast for beginners.
[00:44:46] Mickelle: So if I push play on that, it tells me a fairy tale in Dutch. Yeah,
[00:44:51] Jordan: so it’s the story a couple of times. Story first very slowly in Dutch with subtitles, with karaoke subtitles. So you know what’s coming, you can read along.
[00:45:00] Jordan: And then the story again, English Dutch, English Dutch per sentence. And then the story one more time in Dutch a little bit faster. So you basically just heard it four times and you can also read along. So you probably already know it after watching it once.
[00:45:15] Mickelle: Wow. And that is geared towards children, adults, does it matter?
[00:45:19] Jordan: It doesn’t really matter. I mean Some of my personal stories are a little bit scary, but I think they’re all age appropriate, well, most.
[00:45:31] Mickelle: So listen to it first before maybe you put it on for your kids if you do. But for adult learners, it sounds like it’s really interesting. So we’ll link that below as well, but the name of it again, Slow Dutch?
[00:45:40] Jordan: The Slow Dutch Podcast.
[00:45:41] Mickelle: The Slow Dutch Podcast, okay. On
[00:45:43] Jordan: Spotify or YouTube.
[00:45:44] Mickelle: Spotify or YouTube. Okay, we’ll link it below. You’ve given us so much today. Thank you so much for sharing all of this. And I really look forward to following along on your journey as you spend this next year plus traveling around the world.
[00:45:57] Mickelle: And yeah, thank you so much to everyone for joining us. Jordan, I look forward to speaking to you again soon in the future.
[00:46:03] Jordan: Thank you for having me. It was really fun, really nice to think about certain things in a different way. So thank you so much.
[00:46:12] Mickelle: All right, and sending you off with all the love in the world on your new adventure next week.
[00:46:16] Mickelle: I can’t believe it.
[00:46:18] Jordan: Yeah.
[00:46:18] Next week. I can’t believe it. We will talk to you soon.